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Why is it that men in this world are jerks??

Willowspring

I dont know most of the guys on here, but... Why is that most men are jerks or A**holes??? I mean, why is that they say one thing and mean another??
I hate/love this guy and he's pissing me off and i just want to take his big dummy dumb head and *shakes it*... I mean, first he tells me he loves me forever and nothng can change than, and then the next minute, he hates me with a passion and doesnt talk to me,...
Is it my luck with guys or are all of them mostly like this...?? WHERE ARE ALL THE NICE GUYS?!?!

Kathleen

Chasing after the mean girls, while we sit and watch.

Alternately, the nice guy isn't always the one we look for.

Zebula77

*waves* nice guy here! Grin

But, umm. In my experience the nice girls go for the bad ones. I'm sorry to say it, but I've seen it way too often. :roll:

And then us nice guys say 'I hate to say it, but I told you so!' 'Umm, but I like you' and then they say 'aww, but you're only a good friend'

Heh, now that is the story of my life. :roll: :?

I am seeing a nice girl/woman now, but I don't think it's gonna go anywhere. This finding a mate stuff sure is difficult, innit?

Arfurido

I like nice guys... but they have to be able to show wacked sides of their personalities as well. They have to have confidence and courgage, and trust themselves. And I guess that's a lot of the things that classifies a "bad guys". But I don't want them to be a-holes. (Yes, guys like that does excist! But like Dr. Phil says... "you teach'em how to treat you". Not meaning a girl deserves to be treated bad, but you have to set limits and learn when not to take any more crap.)

And... nice guys might come across as somewhat "same whatever, as long as it has breasts". I want someone who knows what they want and don't want just "anything". The times I knew I did a right thing by dumping a "nice guy" was when I heard three weaks later he had gotten another girlfriend. Then I knew it wasn't [i:0463f59981]me[/i:0463f59981] he wanted, but [i:0463f59981]someone.[/i:0463f59981]

Not sure if I'm kicking in the totally wrong direction here, but sure you get my point... not saying that every nice guy is desperate or anyting, but they might come across as a bit less determined than bad guys, that kinda lock their eye on you and lets you chase them.

I've actually known several "nice guys" that have the qualities I'm looking for. They can also come across as bastards though, but that's just because they're being reasonable with their feelings. So when they've stated they don't want me, it's not because they're bad and have used me, but because this just isn't right for them.

Relationships is a game, sometimes you get dumped, sometimes YOU are the a-hole. It's just a matter of deciding how bad you are going to let anyone treat you. There's always a better option.

Zebula77

Hmm, 'confidence and courage' she says. Guess I'll have to work on those, heh. Grin Wink

Kathleen

F*** nice guys. Nice guys are just @$$4013$ who hang around whining about how girls go after guys

Fourleafclover

Wellllll - there is some truth to that. Sometimes nice guys need to be a bit more assertive or the bad guys swoop down and scoop up all the girls first.

Nice and assertive.... a rare combination but they are out there.

xenophile80

The nice guys are probably in process of growing up themselves. There are those that start out nice but end up turning into jerks, and those that start out as jerks, but find a mellow as they get older.

You're still young. There's plenty of time to find the nice ones scattered out there. :)

lostshard

why can't nice guys just be nice guys without someone bashing them and calling them names?

..please... :roll:

i agree with you Fourleave, they do need to be a tad more assertive...they'll learn...

Nowth

[quote:118b7008a1="lostshard"]why can't nice guys just be nice guys without someone bashing them and calling them names?

..please... :roll: [/quote:118b7008a1]
*:roll:s along with you*

(Tho... I never thought I was "nice".)

Zebula77

[quote:154f496fbd="Kathleen"]F*** nice guys. Nice guys are just @$$4013$ who hang around whining about how girls go after guys[/quote:154f496fbd]

Umm, thanks. :?

Zebula77

I don't even know what 'assertive' means, heh. :roll:

dewshine_lover_1

I think i got lucky..I dont have a man slave like i wanted (joke) haha but my husband is a bit in between nice and bad..He can be a bit selfish..but than he will turn around and give me what i want..its a bit wierd actually..sometimes hell call me names to piss me off..but than hes asking me what i want to do today..its my choice..where do i want to go to dinner..is there anything i can do for you? He kind of creeps me out with his split personalities hahahaha but i have the best of both worlds (dont tell fahrout i said that) Grin :twisted:

ulmtwen

All I can say on this topic is that if you get sick of trying to find a boy, there's always room for all you ladies on the other side. :twisted:

Girls know how to treat girls. Yeah, I said it. Someone back me up!

xenophile80

I'll back you up on that. I love my husband, but... Girls are awesome... *sighs wistfully*

Foxeye

On the subject of nice guys...I could quote the "Death of a Nice Guy" story, or "Mating Rituals I & II", but I think this is my favorite story. It is reprinted from [url=http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/spineless.shtml]Heartless B*tches International[/url]

The Man With No Spine - A parable for "Nice Guys"
By John Russell

There once was a man without a spine.

He was a very likable guy. The advantage of not having a spine was that he could fit himself to anyone, and he frequently did. He could flex this way and that.

But he couldn't stand up ...

...and being kinda mushy and flat most of the time, people often walked on him without realizing he was there.

So he got sad, having this dreadful absence of a spine, and he was resentful too. He wondered why other people couldn't fit themselves to him the way he fit himself to others, but that was silly because he never felt he had the right to ask anyone directly to fit themselves to him. He was formless, what was there to fit to anyway? In cyberspace he talked tough as if he had a spine, but people could clearly see by his rage and resentment that he didn't have one in real life, and he perished in the flame wars he provoked and only came out feeling more ashamed and ineffectual.

He wished he could be with a woman, to help him the way a spine would. If he clung to a woman with a spine, he could stand up, but women didn't like it when he did that. He often called them "bitches" for the women with spines coldly asked him to let go of them, or unceremoniously shrugged him and his issues off onto the ground telling him to get his own spine.

If he fancied a spineless woman, on the other hand, he couldn't get her interest because they were looking for men with spines that they could cling to. But the spineless women would hang around with him for sympathy, and he'd be their platonic male friend and play "therapist" though he was as sick as they were. He'd often call himself a "feminist" and lecture these spineless women how to stand on their own when he had no idea of how to stand for himself.

With all the bending and flopping around he did, a spine never could get a chance to grow.

Then one day he had a brainstorm, he decided he'd make himself a spine.

He took a long stick.... and he put it far up his ass.

It was an improvement, though uncomfortable. It was the first time in his life he could walk tall, if not a bit stiff. He found he could have opinions at odds with others, and stand for them. He found out that he didn't have to be liked, that the world didn't end if he pissed someone off. He didn't want to fit easily with other people anymore, in fact he became inflexible.

People commented on the change, some people didn't particularly like him with the stick up his ass but they did notice him more. Some people felt that at least they could respect him, even if they didn't always like him because he did less whining. At least nobody stepped on him by accident.

However relationships still didn't come easy, it was hard for a woman with a spine to love him with the stick up his ass. He was stiff, cold, brutally opinionated, condescending, and self-righteously hostile. But eventually he did attract a very pretty woman without a spine who saw him as a tower of strength to cling to.

At first he loved this woman, he thought the stick up his ass was the answer to his dating problems. He was finally being loved the way he once loved others. At first it was great, and then it was good, and then it was ok, and then it was uncomfortable, and by the end of a year it was infuriatingly suffocating. The spineless woman clung like a straightjacket. The horror!!! The horror!!!

But the stick up his ass made him so inflexible he didn't know how to get the spineless woman off of him, If only he could bend. He was trapped, upright in his "obligations", "duty to her", "guilt", "pride in his commitment", he spent months with his arms helplessly flapping about trying to get her off of him and trying not to look like he was doing that.

He was hoping that she would leave by hinting her indirectly, he used sarcasic tones, said mean things that were "just a joke", neglect, "constructive" criticism intended to insult. He only made the spineless woman feel more insecure, so she clung HARDER.

Spineless men envied him, called him a jerk for the way he was treating her, just the way he remembered how he used to envy other men before he had the stick up his ass (when he'd play consoler to their teary-eyed spineless girlfreinds). If only they knew what it was like to be on the receiving end of a spineless person's embrace they'd understand. He wished she'd leave him for one of the spineless men who envied him. He felt ashamed for the way he must have made women feel in the past when he was trying to cling to them, he knew that they weren't so evil after all.

One day he decided that there was only one way to be free of the spineless woman once and for all, the stick up his ass had to go.

So he pulled the stick out, and to his amazement a miracle happened: he was still standing! All of the years of inflexibility allowed him the chance to grow a spine. At first he was still a bit stiff but eventually he had the flexibility to contort a bit and yet maintained the firmness to struggle, push, and wriggle from the spineless woman's grasp (though she protested much). He stayed far out of her reach and the reach of other spineless women so that he could never be grasped by one again.

He was overjoyed with his new-found freedom; he could bend sometimes like he used to (but not too far) and also he could stand tall. He went out, partied, enjoyed life to the fullest, and eventually found a woman with a normal spine like his.

They stood together as separate individuals giving mutual support and enjoying time alone too, and lived (relatively) "happily ever after"...

The end :)

krwordgazer

That is a very good story, Foxeye. It makes some good points. :)

Of course, "nice" doesn't necessarily mean "spineless." "Nice" can just mean a decent, sensitive guy.

The idea that confidence attracts is a true one. What people often don't realize is that all a person needs to develop a little confidence is to have someone just like them for who they are. "Exciting" in a person you're dating is fun-- but if that's all you're looking for, what you're going to find can be dangerous. On the other hand, if you're looking for someone to live the rest of your life with, there's a lot to be said for choosing someone who can be your best friend.

I would say to the nice guys and the nice girls-- look for someone who is also nice, but not weak and clingy. Don't waste time on "exciting" if you're looking for permanence. "Exciting" only lasts as long as the relationship is new, anyway. And a "bland" person really isn't, if you get to know them better. Everyone has an interesting story to tell if you care to listen.

For the rest-- I think we should avoid "all men are jerks" or "nice guys are weak" or any other stereotypical, blanket statements. They are a form of prejudice. We would consider it sexism if they were said about women, so the same applies to what we say about men.

And here's another thought-- if you find you're constantly attracting/attracted to people who are going to treat you badly, you may need a little help. I'd recommend a book called "Love is a Choice" by Minrith & Meyer. It helped me immensely. :)

Foxeye

[quote:92250c1f1c="krwordgazer"]Of course, "nice" doesn't necessarily mean "spineless."[/quote:92250c1f1c]

That's the problem with the word "nice"...it doesn't really mean a wholeheckuvalot. :/

The words of the Wicked Witch from Into the Woods come to mind.

"You're so nice. You're not good, you're not bad, you're just [i:92250c1f1c]nice[/i:92250c1f1c]."

Heh, just babbling now. I do agree with what you said, I just never cared for the word "nice". And the term "nice guy" has come to be almost a label more than a description.

[quote:92250c1f1c]For the rest-- I think we should avoid "all men are jerks" or "nice guys are weak" or any other stereotypical, blanket statements. They are a form of prejudice. We would consider it sexism if they were said about women, so the same applies to what we say about men.[/quote:92250c1f1c]

Hear hear!

Fourleafclover

This thread has gotten so interesting..... now I'm reflecting on Oz...

Willowspring

o.0 wow... So many people posted before i even noticed...

I love Nice guys, dont get me wrong... But the guy that i was talking about was once a nice guy and than... goes into the marines and next thing i know... Captain Hardass appears.

I have nothing against nice guys... sometimes its the feeling, once i met a nice guy, its almost too good to be true. and it usually is. *sigh* Everytime i get with a nice guy, I feel like I miss up and we no longer have a relationship... is it me... or is it... something else Unhappy

xenophile80

Well, sometimes doubts are a self-fullfilling prophecy. If you're constantly waiting around for the other shoe to drop, then, sooner or later, you'll find something to back up your fears.

Sometimes you have to sit back and look at the good in the person you're with, not the bad. Sometimes you have to trust them to be who they say they are and just enjoy their company. This is not to say that you should turn a blind eye to their actions, just, give them the benefit of the doubt sometimes. ;)

Willowspring

well, from what my captain hardass says is whats wrong with me... is that I'm a 19 year old immature child. :roll: I couldnt agree more and i think thats what pisses him off...

I can be mature at times, but in this day and age, i think everyone at least a few times in their life should be immature. :twisted: and thats maybe what a lot of guys see me as a friend not as a lover/girlfriend thing.

xenophile80

uhm... I'll agree that everyone should strive to keep a childlike part to their nature, but...

I don't know about immature. :?

krwordgazer

I think you should be who you are, Willowspring. :D You are still 19, right? I remember myself at that age-- and yes, I would waver between being quite grown up and still very childlike. I've never yet heard of anyone over the age of, oh, 25, who would even expect a 19-year-old to suddenly act like a grownup, every day, all the time. . . It sounds to me as if this young man is being a bit immature. Wink

You're not immature in the sense of "less mature than you should be at your age." If you can't still be a bit immature at times at 19, well, where's the fun in that? Why should anyone expect you to be mature?

Furthermore, why should you settle down yet to a mature relationship? I know you're going to have a baby, and that's going to force you to grow up in many ways faster than you normally would. But try to enjoy your youth while you've got it, anyway. Try to find time to still play and be a kid. Because if you miss out on being 19 by trying to act 30, when you're 30 you'll understand what you missed. . .

In my opinion, the best thing you can do for yourself right now is let yourself be as free as possible and don't worry if you don't "have someone." You don't need anyone but yourself. :)

Willowspring

Thanks Board Mom, you made me feel a lot better

krwordgazer

You're welcome, Willowspring (hugs)

Another thing occurred to me, though-- as far as this guy being a "jerk"--

If he's been in the Marines during wartime, he's probably been through some things that have forced him to grow up really fast, too. I'm not surprised it's hardened him-- maybe even made him a bit rigid. THe Marines are known for that. Try to accept him as he is, now.

Maybe it's caused a distance between you. Time only can tell if that distance can be bridged. If you can stay friends, that's good. If not, at least you can let him go without bitterness. :)

Willowspring

actually, when he was a kid, he had to take care of his mother, then seeing one of his marine friend killing himself during boot camp. i feel extremely sorry for him and i wish him all the happiness in the world, god knows he deserves it

Zebula77

Hmmm, yes but I do need someone now, heh. I can feel it with every ounce of me. :?

Exactly what I need, I'm not so sure of. A little bit of fun? Something serious? I dunno.

WhiteTiger

If there is one thing I have found out...us Nice guys are great friends...thats not what many women look for.

I would say enjoy the freedom. Its better then fretting and fighting all the time.

StrangeWays

I think the real question here is:
Why are women not/less attracted to "nice men"?
Women often say men are jerks and run
of with the biggest jerk they can find. (And
everyone else knows he is but she). Why is that?
And why are we men blamed for this and take it?
Well, I don't know, but what I do know is that the
solution can be find in the psyche of women.

Mynx

Interesting thread...

Here's my perspective... and considering I spent 9 years in a relationship with a so called "bad boy", I'd like to think that I know where I'm coming from. *shrugs*

"Bad Boys" appear to have it together. They are sexy and self-confident, and they appear to be in complete control of themselves. If the world doesn't work to their liking, they either change it or go against it to the point that their own influence seems to be the most powerful. It doesn't matter if it's the law or the heavens above... right or wrong, he'll find a way to make it work for his own ends and means.

A woman finds certain or all of these aspects attractive, for different reasons. Power, self-confidence, what have you...

The problem here is this.... bad boys are just that... bad boys.... Ultimately, the "I don't care, I'll do what I want" attitude is just a selfish front for a guy who never learned to take other people's thoughts and feelings into consideration... and the very things that make him so attractive at first end up being a woman's undoing in the end...

Nice guys aren't aren't necessarily spineless... they are just better in tune with the people around them....

As a younger woman... a girl... I never saw that...

In the end, the lesson I have learned is the bad boy is the stereotypical cave man who would just as soon club you over the head and drag you into his cave by the hair. Maybe it's an inherent biological thing that women are attracted to this? This type of guy will hunt and provide?

:roll:

The logical choice is the man who has learned to put others first... not the boy who selfishly puts his own needs and wants first...

But women are only human, just as men are.

We live and we learn... in some cases, lessons are much harder to learn.

NobleAtrocity

One thing that helps me is to remember that it's the journey that's important, not the final destination.

If we look too hard for just the right person, or think too much of who we want to end up with in the end, then we won't enjoy what we come across. I've had many friends tell me that they get hit on more when they're in a relationship than they do when they're single. It has to do with self confidence (as was stated already), you're not searching for someone so you're more likely to be yourself and more self confident and that attracts people. Don't try too hard to look for the right person and don't work too hard to make a relationship last. It will be what it will be and if you enjoy what it is until it ends, then you come away with something positive. But if it doesn't end and turns into something else, then that's cool too. The more you try to make something happen, the more impossible it is to achieve. (try to live in the now *howl* ) As Worgazer already stated (and i always like what you have to say) "you don't need anyone but yourself", I also agree with that. I also feel the yearning to not be alone and to have someone in my life, and i have a hard times reminding myself that sometimes being alone is better than being with the wrong person.

I find that i always yearn for what i tend to lack in my life at the time. Like right now i spend most of my time talking to my younger coworkers, so sometimes i get desperate for some serious mature conversation. When i was dating a flake i just wanted someone reliable who could be serious sometimes and when i dated someone with no sense of humor all i wanted to do was go out and have fun. Life in all of it's forms takes balance (balance is a big thing for me), we shouldn't be so caught up in differentiating between 'nice' and 'not nice' (which has also already been mentioned) and look for someone who is both... an even blending. This would especially be true for those of us who are monogomous, if i were to settle down with one person i would want them to have a little of everything.

And as a vote on the side of the 'nice' guys, the relationships i've had that have meant the most to me have been with people that were my friends first (with one exception), and are still my friends now (the closest actually). And no the relationships did not end because i just saw them as friends after a while. So don't give up hope!! Huzzah. *cheesy grin*

Strange Ways: it goes both ways.

Ice Tooth you always have such great things to say and make good points. You reminded me of one of George Carlin's monologues: "It's the quiet ones you gotta worry about". (oh, and the movie is The Neverending Story, but i love The Dark Crystal!)

I know that mostly i'm reiterating what most of you have already said. I find that i want to add a comment/idea to a lot of the things that have already been stated, but i'm so tired and don't feel like doing quote/unquote, quote/unquote all over the place, so please don't think that i'm trying to "steal anyone's thunder".

krwordgazer

I think a lot of the problem is that dating [i:47223988f0]is [/i:47223988f0]a game. There are all these rules and expectations. It seems to me that often the person looking for a date is not looking for a real person to spend some time with, but someone to fit a fantasy of romance from their own imagination.

We women say we want men who will consider our needs first. When they actually do it, we're disappointed that they're not confident, tough, or inspiring enough. We want a fantasy rebel, a Hollywood-ized romantic figure.

It's similar, I think, for men-- as Noble Atrocity says. A book I just read by C. S. Lewis says (in my own paraphrase) that men have two women in their minds, a real one and a fantasy "bad girl." The real one is someone they would want to love, give to, make sacrifices for. But the fantasy is what they are often looking for to date. "She's hot." That's all that matters.

The problem is that the people who most closely resemble these fantasy figures are often self-centered people who happen to be good actors.

Dating seems to be a rip-off in this sense. Where else could the idea come from that someone who is "a friend" could never be more than that? What could possibly be better than spending the rest of your life with someone whom you have already learned can be a good friend?

I think the best way to meet a person you might eventually make your "significant other" is to join a group of people with common interests, and make some friends. :)

PCoquelin

[quote:9ac907a89f="Mynx"] ...
The problem here is this.... bad boys are just that... bad boys.... Ultimately, the "I don't care, I'll do what I want" attitude is just a selfish front for a guy who never learned to take other people's thoughts and feelings into consideration... and the very things that make him so attractive at first end up being a woman's undoing in the end...

Nice guys aren't aren't necessarily spineless... they are just better in tune with the people around them....

As a younger woman... a girl... I never saw that...
...
[/quote:9ac907a89f]

I'm afraid many women choose "bad boys" because it makes them feel or look "more intelligent" than their partner(s) ( Maybe hoping they'll have more control, but mainly they forget they deal with a human being, not a robot )


But with a [b:9ac907a89f]life[/b:9ac907a89f]mate, you have to live long, and well, sooo...

[quote:9ac907a89f="Mynx"]We live and we learn... in some cases, lessons are much harder to learn.[/quote:9ac907a89f]

Frighteningly so ( got some examples of such bad choices around, in my family ).

blackmagicrose

[color=indigo:99ea243d47]Ah yes...the Marines....knows about this well. I almost married a guy going into the Core. They do live by a certain code and they do take that code to the extreme sometimes. Military relationships can be VERY hard to deal with and the Marines are one of the most difficult. I would be going out on a limb here but I could probably safely say that out of all the military branches they have the highest divorce rate. When you are involved with a guy who is in the Marines or training to become one you aren't their priority. Their priority is ALWAYS the Core. It is just something you have to get used too. They seem to go into bootcamp as one person and come out as someone completely different.

On the whole guys/girls jerk thing. I think it works both ways. You have society telling you you have to be this perfect person inside and out. What is scary is that kids are falling victim to this whole thing younger and younger. Especially when it comes to weight and looks. Whatever happened to accepting someone for who and what they are? Granted I have dated the "dangerous man" and looking back I can tell you it really wasn't all that it was cracked up to be. Wink [/color:99ea243d47]

xenophile80

[quote:adf3200c98="krwordgazer"]
It's similar, I think, for men-- as Noble Atrocity says. A book I just read by C. S. Lewis says (in my own paraphrase) that men have two women in their minds, a real one and a fantasy "bad girl." The real one is someone they would want to love, give to, make sacrifices for. But the fantasy is what they are often looking for to date. "She's hot." That's all that matters.
[/quote:adf3200c98]

Heehee. A bit off topic, but, I think I just realized that my husbands a luckier guy than I thought as I think he's got both of those in me. Normally the jeans/flannel shirt girl playing with the puppies and loving power tools, and the temptress in black vinyl from time to time - with a fair dose of crazy thrown in, so, maybe he's not all that lucky after all. ;)

lunakat

This may sound like an over-simplification, but...

Aren't "bad boys" about twice as likely to come on to a girl in an assertive, confident way-- that makes her swoon?

While "nice guys" will ask first, wait for ages to determine if she "likes him" before making a move , or simply hang out and be chummy while she interprets their interactions as a friendship?

[b:18eeacd877] The two classes of Jerks[/b:18eeacd877]
[b:18eeacd877]Jerks[/b:18eeacd877] are usually jerks because they're self centered. In my experience, they tend to get that way from either having too much pain in life, or not enough. [i:18eeacd877]For example:[/] The self-centered handsome boys simply expect every girl to like them- and can take or leave the once they have, confident that they will get another to replace her easily enough. These sorts are so convinced of their own graces, they just think they deserve it all.

[o]In contrast:[/i:18eeacd877] then there are the sorts that are (all unknowingly) mortally afraid of a relationship, either because they think it will pen them in... or hesitant to get close because of previous heart-ache. In either case, they've had a bad experience they don't want to repeat. A couple of my friends fall into this category.

[b:18eeacd877]My take on the 'Nice Guy'[/b:18eeacd877]
Nice Guys... How do people become "nice?" They learn how to empathize. Nice guys know how to be kind to, respectful of and empathize with others. Most of us learn to be nice to others, because we have had the unfornate experience of being insecure/uncomfortable in certain situations. We have felt the pain- and we would like to avoid inflicting it on others.

Nice guys, then, are typically holding a rather sweet and appealing sort of inner insecurity. They make for great boyfriends. But... they are about half as likely as jerks to effectively come on to a woman. Why? Because they hesitate due to insecurity. In most cases, the woman has to notice them.

[b:18eeacd877]Winning Formula[/b:18eeacd877]
The nice guys that 'get the girl' are the ones who can be assertive when the moment calls for it, and then let their own lovely selves shine in the relationship. That's really the winning formula.

The girl responds to the forward move-- then falls for the nice guy underneath. (Note: It takes a certain amount of experience for girls to recognize the pattern- so older women will typically go for nicer guys, while young girls swoon over the flashy jerks...)

krwordgazer

You are wise, O Lunakat. :bow:

(Ok, I'm being funny-- but I really mean it! I think you've hit the nail on the head!)

For you nice guys out there-- I married a nice guy-- a quiet, shy, non-assertive guy.

Here's how it worked: We got to know each other first in church (any group social setting that was not a "singles pick-up place" would have done). We began talking and joking together, and discovered we had things in common.

He decided he liked me-- a lot. So he started doing little things. One day he met me in the parking lot outside a class I was taking, and offered to carry my books for me (they were heavy!) When he set the books down on the table, he left a cookie on top.

He would find out where I was going with other friends and what I was doing-- and arrange to be there, too.

He would open doors for me, pull out my chair from the table so I could sit.

He gave me a romantic Christmas present (a sculptured metal rose).

Then, finally, he asked me out. By this time I had picked up his signals very clearly, decided that I wasn't sure whether I liked him "that way" or not, but I was definitely intrigued, flattered and pleased by his little gentlemanly attentions. So I went out with him-- and made it clear to him that I liked him, that his advances were not unwelcome. This gave him more confidence, which made me more pleased and intrigued. And then I discovered I was in love with him.

And now we've been married 18 years. So who says the nice guy never gets the girl? Wink

lunakat

A nice guy... a nice girl... and really nice story. Wink

You know... I miss men lately.

the night before last, I lost my notes for this class... and this really nice guy let me come over to his place at midnight to pick up his copies. It was so sweet. And he even offered me food- although i declined.

And then he walked me back out to my car...

And I was overcome with this rush of wanting-- you know. No, not [i:f4b858ba3c]that[/i:f4b858ba3c]... get that naughty thought out your mind! :roll: Wanting the [i:f4b858ba3c]boyfriend[/i:f4b858ba3c] type- who does nice things for you, who you can call in the middle of the night-- and go over and snuggle with in his single apt., who wears flanel and loose jeans... and has a slightly deeper voice, and stronger arms... and is considerate and protective...

Aw heck. Men are nice. At least, they can be...

NightAngel

Why is it that women in this world are ..oh sorry, wrong topic.

lunakat

...so judgemental? I dunno. Maybe we all want to think we're right. Wink

I've had a number of boyfriends- a good deal of positive experience. I even fell in love a couple times... and I rather miss them still.

Sure, I love my gal... she's it for me. But there are differences. And I get nostalgic now and then.

joselle

I personally, LOVE nice men. Well...nice man maybe. I was lucky enough to snag mine before the world had had the chance to kick him (dating wise)...though I do suspect he'd have done just fine. I have no idea why women go for the bad boys...I certaintly never would. One of my roomates girlfriend told me recently that she would never break up with my roommate (male) for any reason. Weather or not that's actually true, it's a terribely scary thing to say, and I told her so. They've only been dating for 5 months and to me it just represents everything that women do wrong in dating. My fellow ladies: set some standards!! You deserve a guy who treats you well!! And if he doesn't. Leave. Peroid!!!! To me, loving someone shouldn't be the only reason to not go. Being happy and well taken care of, should be right up there on the list too!! And if he ever hits you. Ever. Even one: get the hell out and call the police!!

To you wonderful men on this forum, especially our fabulous Zeb, just remeber. If a woman can't see all the fabulous things you have to offer, then she isn't worth it either. Honestly.

Nowth

[quote:67e5b5c63f="lunakat"]...so judgemental?[/quote:67e5b5c63f]
Good question.


...

Sigh. Even the nice guy has to make the first move. Still the romantic Ninja-Pirate, except refined and gentlemanly. Advanced beyond gender stereotypes only where it suits the suited. Always the doer, never the giggling prize.

Okay, I've just about had it with this topic and am therefore being unfair and irrational - but really. Everything's rigged so that the guuyuyuyuyy (*bletcherous word*) has to fall over his own feet impressing the ladies and then his psychology and anatomy are dissected on internet forums.

What, he still hasn't tried to ravish you even though you haven't done anything yourself? Off with his losery head! ('Amica' magazine, obviously paraphrased...)

Mrroowwl.

Tipsy, too.

Zebula77

[quote:4f269e3f59="joselle"]To you wonderful men on this forum, especially our fabulous Zeb, just remeber. If a woman can't see all the fabulous things you have to offer, then she isn't worth it either. Honestly.[/quote:4f269e3f59]

Thank you, muchsweet Josellething. Wink

Words much needed, let me tell you.

Willowspring

[quote:e2d344cb09="Zebula77"][quote:e2d344cb09="joselle"]To you wonderful men on this forum, especially our fabulous Zeb, just remeber. If a woman can't see all the fabulous things you have to offer, then she isn't worth it either. Honestly.[/quote:e2d344cb09]

Thank you, muchsweet Josellething. Wink

Words much needed, let me tell you.[/quote:e2d344cb09]
Oh, does our wonderful Zeb need a hug??

Zebula77

Oh, well. Always, heh. Nah, I'm ok. Just a little disappointed things aren't going the way I want them to go with my lady friend. :roll:

Thanks, tho. Wink

krwordgazer

Quote:
Nowth

Sigh. Even the nice guy has to make the first move. Still the romantic Ninja-Pirate, except refined and gentlemanly. Advanced beyond gender stereotypes only where it suits the suited. Always the doer, never the giggling prize.

Okay, I've just about had it with this topic and am therefore being unfair and irrational - but really. Everything's rigged so that the guuyuyuyuyy (*bletcherous word*) has to fall over his own feet impressing the ladies and then his psychology and anatomy are dissected on internet forums.



You know, Nowth, I think part of this is biological. I remember learning in Animal Behavior in college how in mating, the gender who must invest the most/has the most to lose is the one who picks their mate. And then the other gender is the one who makes the advances, hoping to get picked.

In mammals,, its the female who carries and then suckles, and frequently raises, the offspring. So it's the female who picks-- and the male who must "fall over his feet impressing" the judging female.

Still, I believe we are more than just animals and that it's unkind for ladies to "dissect [males'] psychology and anatomy" as part of the picking process. I also think we can go beyond mere biology and that females can and often do become more assertive in making advances.

My best girlfriend is happily married today because she finally told her best male friend she was in love with him. . .

Nowth

My biology is broken, I think...

xenophile80

Well, part of the problem of being an assertive female is, even though guys say they want that sort of thing, they run from it. :roll:

Nowth

I suppose even guys occasionally manage to not be interested...

Besides, assertive males have to deal with rejection all the time, it seems

krwordgazer

Women have to deal with a lot of rejection, too.

Ever heard a couple of so-called "assertive" guys talking about girls? If a girl isn't good looking, she might as well be dead, for all the value they place on her. Unhappy

xenophile80

Quote:
krwordgazer

Women have to deal with a lot of rejection, too.

Ever heard a couple of so-called "assertive" guys talking about girls? If a girl isn't good looking, she might as well be dead, for all the value they place on her. Unhappy



Amen...

I happen to think I'm a rather cute catch, but, I've been rejected a fair time or few in my life as well.

Nowth

Yes, of course, nobody said being assertive meant automatic success, or that people of some particular genital configuration were morally superior.

And that somebody's cute doesn't mean I'd want to do anything with them. Besides being broken, I mean.

I'm fond of what you wrote about dating vs. friendship, Wordgazer.

Fourleafclover

*re-reads the thread*

Aw, sometimes the nice guys get married and start families.

*Looks at husband*

StrangeWays

Quote:
krwordgazer

Ever heard a couple of so-called "assertive" guys talking about girls? If a girl isn't good looking, she might as well be dead, for all the value they place on her. Unhappy



And wat do girls talk about?
I often heard such
comments from females too.
Good looks = good genes.
We all know it (sub-)concious
and act on it or talk about it.
Talking about good looks is
really talking about good genes.

Quote:
krwordgazer

I believe we are more than just animals



90% falls in love with on of the
1 in 6 that has the fitting gene.
and also relations without that
gene-match will often fail.
Why? Because in that sitation
our feromones tell us all the time
we are with the wrong person.

Dating isn't a game, it's very
serious, it's also an important way
to procreate because around our
adulthood we are most fertile.
So biological speaking it's how we
choose our mate, one of the most
important choices in our life
because the meaning of it is to
make off-spring.
Falling in love is our way of
determining if someone has the right
genes to procreate with because it
really tells us that our off-spring will
be healthy, smart and strong.
it's onfortunate that good genes often
make for a bad spous.
After procreation we mature and
make other choices, our genes again. :roll:
Now we want a lifemate, not a
procreationmate.
Our genes tell us this but our society
is more or less against listening to
our genes.
But to get back on topis:
procreationmates are in general
ass-holes and lifemates are the
"nice guys".

NobleAtrocity

I think we could stand to have a little less procreation going on. Not the act of it of course, just the end result. ;P

I don't know much about being assertive, i didn't get that gene. But falling into a relationship can be nice too. That's what happend with me and my late husb., and it sure bypassed a lot of the annoying stages. No worrying about who's gonna make a move and when.

krwordgazer

I understand what you're saying, Strange Ways-- but I refuse to believe it's only pheremones. They play a part, of course-- but we're not slaves to them. And if as you say, one in six has the fitting gene-- well, if a woman walks into a room with 60 men in it, 10 of them will be fitting mates genetically! So why does she choose the one out of 10 that she does? It's because there's other factors like common interests, personality compatability, and so on.

Sure we're attracted to beautiful people-- but if what you're saying is correct, we would not be attracted to someone very beautiful if they didn't happen to "smell right." But most beautiful people are found universally beautiful by everyone.

I think it's much more a case of "eye candy" than that. Wink

But anyway-- we've both discovered through our many talks that we're both equally stubborn about what we believe. So we'll just have to politely disagree. :D

joselle

Quote:
krwordgazer

.Sure we're attracted to beautiful people-- but if what you're saying is correct, we would not be attracted to someone very beautiful if they didn't happen to "smell right." But most beautiful people are found universally beautiful by everyone.




True, but historically standards of beauty have differed drastically, from the more rotund ladies of the rennisance era, to the stick figures of the 20s. Even today differnt societies have different standards of beauty, diferent admiered bodyparts. I'd have to agree with the subconcious beauty=good genes,...or at leasty physically healthy ones. But in this day and age "beauty" can be got through plastic surgery.....which has nothing to do with genetics. So it's a bit strange to me that looks are still praised so in this society when pretty much anyone w/ enough money to through away can obtain this type of "beauty."


(not to get into a debate on is plastic surgery attractive...my point still stands.)

StrangeWays

Quote:
krwordgazer

I understand what you're saying, Strange Ways-- but I refuse to believe it's only pheremones. They play a part, of course-- but we're not slaves to them. And if as you say, one in six has the fitting gene-- well, if a woman walks into a room with 60 men in it, 10 of them will be fitting mates genetically! So why does she choose the one out of 10 that she does? It's because there's other factors like common interests, personality compatability, and so on.



But she does that after his
genetics are checked out
and identfied as compatible.
The things you name come
third, if some-one doesn't
pass the first genetic stage
the other factors won't play
any role.
They then only play a role
in becoming friends.
After the genetic compability
(for procreation) becomes less
important (after procreation)
the factors you name become
important because genetics
isn't anymore.

Quote:
krwordgazer

Sure we're attracted to beautiful people-- but if what you're saying is correct, we would not be attracted to someone very beautiful if they didn't happen to "smell right." But most beautiful people are found universally beautiful by everyone.

I think it's much more a case of "eye candy" than that. Wink



Good genes makes beautiful people.
And the most atractive are the ones
with symetric faces/bodies.
Your symetry is determent by genes.
so looking determens if one has good
genes and feromones ("smelling")
determens if some-one is geneticly
compatable with you.
Beautifull doesn't automaticly means
compatible.
First the good genes are found by
looking for some-one beatifull
then you go to him/her to "snif" out
compatebility this determens if
he/she can be a potential mate and
when he/she is then your factors
come into play.

Quote:
krwordgazer

But anyway-- we've both discovered through our many talks that we're both equally stubborn about what we believe. So we'll just have to politely disagree. :D



Absolutly! :D
But it's fun (at least for me) to talk
about it with you and read such a
different piont of view. Wink
So let's keep talking and disagreeing
okay?

NobleAtrocity

Quote:
Strange Ways


Good genes makes beautiful people.
And the most atractive are the ones
with symetric faces/bodies.
Your symetry is determent by genes.
so looking determens if one has good
genes and feromones ("smelling")
determens if some-one is geneticly
compatable with you.



No one is symmetrical though.

krwordgazer

And if that were all there were to it, no one less than beautiful would ever find a mate. :mrgreen:

Arfurido

Strange Ways, you are not alone, I agree and believe in a lot of the things you say. They say women know even from the first look and handshake wheter she would "go there" or not with a man. I wrote (in norwegian, sadly) in my blog a loong post about body smells and how they makes us go for a person or not. To me, that thing just has to "click". I have to be aroused by his smell. Now, this sounds shallow like hell and just one more thing that helps me to stay single :roll: but I believe in a lot of those things. There is this instinct, a gut feeling that tells me if I would want a person or not. He doesn't have to be gorgeous (actually, the guys I pick are more likely to be a bit "special" than drop dead gorgeous) but there is this thing inside me that has to tell me... "this one is for you".

Because, what are we? Really? Why do we have sex? We have sex to make more people, and if these people are going to have a good chance to stay alive, they have to have good genes. And I believe (however how cynical it may sound) that it's the making people-process that makes us want to be with another person, make love to them, live with them. It's not something we "do just because everyone else does" or "because we're lonely" but because we have this instinct saying "you should sleep with this person".

I've ranted on and on about this in my blog for ages... and my conclusion is: I've dated a lot of different types of guys, and when I meet the right one, I will know it. There IS someone that has it "all" for me out there: that I feel pulled towards for both natural and intellectual reasons. (As some of you might know, I have already met this guy, but because he lives in a different city, things are a bit *cough* complicated.) So I dunno what I'm doing right now... just having fun or looking for the next "real thing" to hit me.

*rant rant* Anyway... I was just going to say a bit about what I go for, and what they mostly need to have is a sense of weirdness, social skills, they have to smell nice, be intelligent to a certain point and they have to be good kissers ;) Or, WE have to be good kissers. Physical chemistry is really important to me, because it was totally missing in my last relationship (beside the fact that my bf had psychopathic tendencies) so I need to be able to just smell his neck and go "WOW!" :twisted: And I have found guys that makes me like that.

But... to be a bit artistic here... the thing a guy needs to have is he has to make me feel comfortable with who I am when I'm with him. That I can totally be myself, and even more than that. When someone makes you want to be better, when the world looks great even when it's raining like hell... that's what I look for in a guy. Someone you don't want to date because he's "great to show off" or someone you date just to pass the time.

I'm not hopeless, wandering about for "the perfect guy" that doesn't exist, because I DO try to date people and think serious about being their gf (they all undergo heavy concideration ;)) but in the end... I will know it when I've found the right guy because it will be right.

Is two years a long time to wait for someone? :(

lunakat

Quote:
Arfurido


Is two years a long time to wait for someone? :(



It depends. Are you waiting in general for the right person? (In which case, no- it's not too long to wait)

Or are you waiting for a particular individual? In that case, I'd say it's a bit unusual... but then, I've waited up to three years myself for a person. Twice. (You do have to make some sort of move or give an indication you like him/her, you know... or else it may never happen! And I'd recommend seeing other people in the meantime- heck, you might even find someone you like better...)

lunakat

Quote:
krwordgazer

Sure we're attracted to beautiful people-- but if what you're saying is correct, we would not be attracted to someone very beautiful if they didn't happen to "smell right." But most beautiful people are found universally beautiful by everyone.



Actually... I'm not very attracted to beautiful people. I can sit back and appreciate the aesthetics of their appearance, sure... but that doesn't mean i want to roll in the hay with them.

Looks alone won't do it for me. It has to be a combination of something attractive in the appearance (not necessarily standard beauty- usually it's more an expression in the eyes), personality, and smell.

In fact... I'm only physically attracted to people who "smell right."

So yes, I'd say that theory has some credence (from my perspective anyways...)

joselle

Quote:
Arfurido

Because, what are we? Really? Why do we have sex? We have sex to make more people




No arguments here. But just remeber that we are one of only....(and I can only think of two others right now: dolphins and Bonobo Chimps)- that have sex for pleasure. So lucky us, lets not throw that gift away. 8)



oh...and to back up what Luna and Arfurido were saying about being attracted to people who "smell right"...I remember reading about a study where they basically put guys dirty t-shirts in a bag and had a bunch of girls rate them. Then they did genetic testing on each of the guys and gals, and found that pretty much across the board the girls had picked guys who were the most genetically diverse-by smell alone.

Arfurido

Luna, well, in my eyes he is mr. right. Or, the one and only person I have ever fallen head over heals for. This guy... I met him last year (I did know him from before though) and it all sorta went downhill from there... I can't be with him until I finish school in two years. And I know, tons of stuff can happen before that time... but I'm having problems seing that anyone alse will ever give me that same glow. And I can't treat him as if he's dead either, because I know he's alive and well and out there... we have contact on a regular basis (phone, sms, msn) but I see him like every third month, mostly because he's scared it might develop into what we both now it can quickly develop into, and it's downright stupid for both of us to start making sacrifices for someone just because we feel what we feel right in this moment. Anything done to hastly will just do nothing more than destroy even our friendships. But at the same time, since I barely see him, he's something of a mystery to me, which makes him even MORE attractive. Maybe if I spent more time with him I could also pinpoint his errors, and then look at the situation more rationally. I dunno.

And Joselle, I've read lots of studies like that and they all strike me as interesting. (Actually, a friend of mine was in one of them, she had to wear the same t-shirt for three days and not shower for those three days.) They do all sorts of weird tests on smell, and I believe in all of them! :mrgreen:

(What they did in my friend's studys case was to show pictures of different females while letting the guys smell t-shirts from girls. Some of them was ovulating, some of them had their period. And it turned out that the guys that was smelling the "ovulating-t-shirts" thought in general all of the women was prettier than the guys smelling the other t-shirts...)

Nowth

You hunams are funny creatures!

Forti-an-twa

Quote:
Nowth

You hunams are funny creatures!



Don't tell me you got that "hunams" from a VERY old PC game... Right?

Nowth

Not thaaat old...

Leanan

*replies without reading topic again*
*hates snail-pace modem*

I'm a jerk. Does that mean I'm a man? Or are women allowed to be jerks too?

krwordgazer

I think the consensus that was reached, Leanan, was that both men and women are quite capable of being jerks-- but just being a man or a woman does not automatically make you a jerk.

I disagree, by the way, that you are one. . . :D


As far as the pheromone thing is concerned, I don't doubt it. I don't even discount it. I just think there's more to it than just that.

Of course, being one who believes in divine Providence, it seems logical to me that if someone is "meant for" me, they are also, incidentally, going to be the right gene combination for me to be attracted to their smell. :)

Nowth

And I don't trust this pheromone theory. It sounds too much like recognition. It doesn't seem to care about anything other than genes - which are of no concern to me...

I don't think I've ever liked or disliked anyone without knowing why. I don't feel like there's anything controlling me there; I mean, I can't control who I like or dislike, and I don't pretend my reasons are particularly "rational" or "thought out", but it doesn't feel mysterious to me.

Some people appear attractive, but that doesn't mean I like them or even "want" them in any way. I'm more likely to envy them or to feel ugly next to them.

My idea of beauty and has a lot to do with style in the sense of self-expression, self-identification. So I find almost all the "hot individuals" in the thread of that name either dull or even offensive/actively annoying because they present their 'attractiveness' in a manner that bothers me somehow - but if I were offered to look like one of them, I would still agree.

You could say that the "role" of looks is to match the personality. Which can be a dangerously shallow assumption, of course, and is hopefully superseded by deeper insights into the person, at some point...

And SMELL? Uh. Yes, yes, some smells are nicer than others. Not sure I ever really paid attention to it beyond that, unless we're talking about perfumes fit for chemical warfare. (Probably containing pheromones!)

Hmm...

What if you fall in love with a penpal? I think it's happened to me once. Are you just falling in love with an idea then?

What if you have no sense of smell? (I hope I'll get mine back eventually)

NightAngel

Quote:
Nowth



What if you fall in love with a penpal? I think it's happened to me once. Are you just falling in love with an idea then?



I've fallen in love more then once while I've never seen that person before.
And three times it turned out into a relationship, so yeah, it's possible.

Fourleafclover

"Faint heart never won fair lady"

Nowth

Friendship isn't conquest, it's discovery.

Willowspring

You know i have that make the oppisite sex want you, and your right... it kinda sucks... Thats why i stick with my ocean smell perfume....

blackmagicrose

I have a couple scents I wear but they are really light. Eternity by Calvin Klein, The Healing Garden Sensual Jasmine, and Realm. I'm picky because really heavy scents make me sneeze...LOL. More than likely I am allergic to them. :roll:

Willowspring

I have that Pink Musk stuff that i only use if i'm on a date... Which isnt often Wink

Arfurido

[quote:695a426c07="IceTooth"]For instance, if your soulmate bumps into you one day after you just spent a week of camping with no showering facilities and then fails to ask for your number due to your offensive scents...is this theory blown out of the water? Or would it make it more accurate? Just curious because with all the weird fetishes these days perhaps some people like that kind of thing. :P [/quote:695a426c07]
I don't think that would ever happen, really ;)

But I remember my boyfriend's smell... I loved it even when he [i:695a426c07]stank[/i:695a426c07], heh heh. Because, besides the really really bad sweaty smell, there is this core of scent that is [i:695a426c07]his[/i:695a426c07]. Aaaahh.

Yes, I'm weird Grin

lunakat

Oh no you're not. I'm the same way.

In fact, half the reason I broke up wtih my wonderful, handsome, perfectly good boyfriend of last year was that I couldn't stand his smell. Half the reason I tried to date this goofy, immature guy (not the best looking chap, terrible finesse in the romance dept. too) was that he smelled like god.

Yes, he smelled like god. It was heaven just to snuggle near him.

Every guy that I've been in love with (all two!), I've loved his scent. I still remember what my first boyfriend smelled like- under his cologne. I could detect him entering the house from all the way in the back- just b/c I was attuned to him. My last boyfriend (who I truly loved)- I could tell when he had crossed the hall. I still think back whistfully on his scent.

And my current relationship? I just love getting near her skin. It smells so good!

Maybe we are closer to other animals than we think.

Willowspring

i'm going to take a very very very large metal bat, and beat the hell out of my ex. (lonny, not Tim)
This is what he has to say

"know what you got no room woman. i was all ready to handle your imiturety but tryin to make me have a baby with you when i wasnt ready is bullshit, inconsiderate and shows how much you really care ...besides that that little bi mikey faggit that you cheated on me with. and you cant deny it im not fucking stupid. that kid was never affraid of me in his life till that day i came over out of the blue and mikey wasnt even in the same room as you. He was on the computer and when he saw me when he had no reason to be scared he thought i was going to kick his little monkey ass. not to mention the other signs and lies. i told you from the beginning. im not an idiot and if you cheated or anything i would pick up on it. you should feel special i even messenged your ass back"

first off, i didnt make him do a damn thing... Secondly, i've never cheated on him.... Jerk

blackmagicrose

Well...I think by his statement you have the combination of jealousy and fear. He put himself into a situation he can no longer get out of, hence the fear aspect and wanting to pin it entirely on you and someone else (unwillingness to take responsibility for his actions.) And then jealousy is the other person he mentions. I am guessing you have a good friendship with the other guy or something and he feels threatened by that.

If life were meant to run smoothly it wouldn't be life. Wink

lunakat

Wow Surprised

His grammar is atrocious!

Willowspring

well, the other guy is my brothers best friend, so He's my brother.... Yes, his gammer is totally horrible.

NobleAtrocity

Quote:
IceTooth

I'm no master at this sort of thing, but I find the use of a 6th sense indispensible in my day to day life. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?



Actually i agree completely with all of that. I can't really have an opinion about a person unless i can 'feel' them first. I'll admit that i'm probably not nearly as good at it as you apparantly are based on your example, but i still have to be able to consider what that sense tells me, added to whatever else i might know about that person, before i can come up with an opinion. *pause to take breath* It's kind of the same reason i can't buy clothing online or through a magazine... i have to feel the garment in my hand (silly). I've actually had people look at me funny when i tell them that they 'feel' good when i've never laid a finger on them (so i tend to keep things like that to myself ;P ). Then there are the people that feel creepy even though they don't look creepy. For certain i find this sense indispensible as well.

Indispensible... good word that, I had to use it too.

Ice Tooth: Have you noticed that you get more or less acute when you drink? Or do you drink, heh?

krwordgazer

Atrocious grammar, arrogance, defensiveness-- and blaming you for a situation where both of you played equal roles in the outcome. And then trumping up a lie that absolves him of any responsibility. Nice work. :?

Really, Willowgreen, I understand that this guy is young and scared of the responsibility of a child-- but in my opinion, you're better off without him. But do make him pay child support-- you didn't make this baby by yourself! (hugs)

Willowspring

*smacks head* totally different guy... That guy would be Lonny, not Tim... He think's that i cheated on him with my brother in all but blood... thats just... weird :?

Willowspring

Quote:
krwordgazer

Atrocious grammar, arrogance, defensiveness-- and blaming you for a situation where both of you played equal roles in the outcome. And then trumping up a lie that absolves him of any responsibility. Nice work. :?

Really, Willowgreen, I understand that this guy is young and scared of the responsibility of a child-- but in my opinion, you're better off without him. But do make him pay child support-- you didn't make this baby by yourself! (hugs)



Thats exactly what my mom said... I think he cheated on me, then didnt have the brass balls to say, i dont want to be with you.

krwordgazer

I'm pretty confused now, Willowgreen. Was that message from the baby's father, or someone else? Surprised

Willowspring

someone else, that i was "involved" with before i got pregnant... His name is Lonny... a green eyed 5'5" itatlian. And now he's saying that I'm a lying whore.... jerk.
Its me, is has to be me... i attract jerks...

lunakat

I hate it when freaky little wierdos follow me around shopping centers. That always gets my goat.

Willowspring- now I'm confused... Who is the father?

Fourleafclover

Willowspring, do you plan on taking prenatal classes? (not sure if this was asked already) They are so very helpful....

and have you picked out who is going to be your support when you deliver? Like a really good friend or your mom? It has to be somebody who's willing to stay up with you for as long as it takes, hold your hand, wipe your head, bring you ice, rub your back.... someone who can be right beside you and keep you centered.

Just wondering... :)

Leanan

Oh, I can be such a jerk when I'm drunk... sometimes even when I'm sober... because plenty of times I do just want sex... almost anyone will do... hey people, remember when I told you about a guy named Francis? Well, his name was Franklin actually... :roll: :oops: not much to say about him, he's ancient history now... I'm really good at not listening to anything people say when all I want is to get into their pants... the not-so-subtle approach that I favour which works on guys so well doesn't work on girls... maybe because many of the girls who are interested in other girls want someone who isn't a total jerk for a chance...

Anyways, some of the things said here do give me hope. In more ways than one.

Willowspring

@Lunakat... Tims the father.... I was going out with Lonny before Tim....

@Clover.... I'm having my mom being my support, maybe my little sister, i'd think she like that... As for the birthing classes... *shurgs* i dont have the money to do them... So i just walk, and my mom said... in through your nose, out your mouth...

Starmist

Very very interesting thread! And it gives me some measure of hope, too...

I consider myself to be quite a sensible perosn, but the thing is I don't really have that much faith in myself when it comes to guys, because I always fall for the wrong ones.
I just experienced another example on my lack of good judgement, when I found out the other day that my best guy friend through 3 years, with whom I have also been more or less intimate with over the years I've known him, has had a girlfriend for the last year without telling me!
She's been living in another country, and I've heard about her, but nothing that would indicate the relationship.
So, my best friend has not only lied to me, he has also cheated on his girlfriend, and made me an accomplice. I swore to myself some years ago when my ex-boyfriend cheated on me, that I would never parttake in infidelity. I never wanted to put someone else in that position. And now I have, not intentially, but I think on some level that I should've known, and just didn't want to see.
It also bothers me a great deal that I for some reason want to stay friends with this stupid guy. I don't get myself sometimes, a lot of times when it comes to boys... And he know how I feel about cheating, so I'm thinking he didn't tell me just so he could have both his girlfriend and me.
Does it makes sense I want to stay friends with him? No..! But it's kinda sad to give up the friendship, too. :?

Yeah, I know it might sound strange that this is (or was) one of my closest friends, but I must say he has (or had) other qualities that I really appreciate, he's always been there for me and been trustworthy in other areas.....although I can't really be sure of that anymore, now can I? Grr....
I wish I had that kind of 6th sense that has mentioned in some posts, I'm way too trusting, or just stupid. Not that it has been all bad, I've had a lot of fun with guys, too. But I really can't picture the meaningful, longlasting relationship....ever..... *knocks on wood, hoping I'm wrong Wink*

Btw, Krwordgazer, which book by C.S. Lewis? Would love to read it!

Willowspring

Okay this is from Lonny again... the boy with the horrible grammer... now he targeted my family and my mother

thats right you were just helping him with his problems. why the fuck after knowing that kid for 2 years would he be affraid of me all the sudden. besides that how could you care if you didnt care if i was ready to have a kid. how could you give a shit practically tryin to fuckin rape me. not to have sex dumbass but to have a kid. so how can you get mad at me other than the fact that you didnt have my cute ass kid. other than that what the fuck are you mad at besides the cheating shit you did me mother fuckin dirty. you showed that after that whole time of being with me and all the shit i did for you you didnt give a fuck. far as you were conserned you were going to have it your way and thats it. no offense to you mom and i like that you look up to her and shit but look at that fucking house. you know how much i cared for you to even step foot in there. the only clean spot is the god damn furnature. and buy the way that shits against the law, its fucking sit and mentally fucking retarted to leave that shit like that. no offense but nice fucking romodle and for you to live in that crap to theres somethin wrong. you need to spent less time trying to help others HOW EVER you help them and look after your self at least a little more.


He is so fucking immature

krwordgazer

Starmist, it was The Screwtape Letters. C. S. Lewis' book where one devil writes to another about the best ways to tempt humanity to wrongdoing. Fascinating book. :)

Willowspring-- see my latest comment in the other thread. This guy is not worth listening to. (hugs)

krwordgazer

[quote:cd9f1b665b]My first martial arts teacher told me once that "basically, 90% of the people in the world are assholes." [/quote:cd9f1b665b]

And they will be, if that's what you expect them to be. People are very good at fufilling our expectations.

But if you set yourself to see their true value, and expect the best from them-- that's what they'll try to give you. Ninety percent of them, anyway. Wink

PCoquelin

I, for one, apply the "5% rule" : in every domain, there will be around 5% of interesting things.
But this counts only about objects Wink : for me most people are interesting...
( Hey, even a Woebringer is, in my eyes ! )

Trollbabe

I hang around with men, because I simply don't understand women all that well. Women can be jerks too.

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