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Elfquest:Final Quest #5 preview

Stefan

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=23445

travelbug

Oh wow =(( :-O

RedheadEmber

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So... does that settle it once and for all? Teir is Kahvi's son.
However, now I'm no longer so sure he won't turn up to be the son of Kahvi and Windkin. Kahvi's comment about "comely butt" seems more like something she'd say to a 'furmate', than something she'd say to a lovemate's son.
Maybe when Windkin said that he and Kahvi had "parted ways, never seeing each other again." What he really meant was: "After we had a good roll in the furs together."

travelbug

It could be "hurry your comely butt to save your brother" or it could be "hurry your comely butt to save our son", I can not see which one it will be.

I was surprized at the tenderness in the in the 5th page <3

lunakat

travelbug said: I was surprized at the tenderness in the in the 5th page <3


I'm sure that Tier will soon learn he was too young to understand the real reason for Kahvi leaving and for her perceived coldness. She probably did whatever she did for his own good.

Speaking of that boy... omg- what an ever-lovin damsel in distress!

travelbug

Abandonment issues are hard to get over.. But I did think it was a bit of a dramaqueen moment there ;)
(I do think he lost his coolness from when we first saw him in HY, but I haven't been bothered much about his "whining" before)

Tam

I'll forgive him that drama queen moment...not much more dramatic than, you know, falling into a rushing river and almost drowning. XD

Embala

Impressiv!

... and informative ;)


What I wonder now - can it be that Ember actually DENIED Recognition successfully? You know - really stopped it instead of just putting it back? Then there won't be a cub - not now.

Tam

It's possible. I don't think that was her intention, but the wording does seem pretty final. Of course, if I were in her situation, I would probably be making more final decisions than thinking about delays.

Heather

So exciting! And great to be seeing Kahvi back in action again. I've always loved her. And looks like we may be getting answers to long unanswered questions.

Llannen

Aack! Why do I do this to myself?! It's totally a love hate relationship with the spoilers for me. The tenderness & "duckling" caught me way of guard too. Even if Kahvi had her reasons....just not something I envisioned her saying. She's way into tough love!

travelbug

I think you can deny recognition and break the link between the souls and delay it.
But there has never been a story yet where the recognition actually goes away. If that can happen it pretty much goes against the purpose of recognition in the first place.

Embala

The fact that there wasn't a story like this before is the reason why I wonder whether it is püossible at all ...

Would make for a really new story and some unexpected turbulance in relationship.

Llannen

travelbug said: I think you can deny recognition and break the link between the souls and delay it.
But there has never been a story yet where the recognition actually goes away.


I had interpreted it as Ember resisting or defying the connection as opposed to Recognition going away...Leetah seemed to do for several days without obvious illness to her and Cutter? Maybe because Leetah's a healer? I don't even want to contemplate that they can make it go away without consummation.

Then I think about Strongbow "rejecting" Timmain. I have always wondered what he was rejecting, I know there's been a lot of discussion about that. I felt like he was rejecting the sharing of soul names, not in a recognition sense, but in a strong sharing sense? That rambling went off topic a little at the end!

travelbug

Cutter was more affected by unaswered recognition than Leetha, he grew thinner and barely ate. Leetha's healing must have played a part?
Dewshine and Tyldak were both affected, growing weak and somewhat sick from fighting it.
Ember too, in the start of #3, seems sick to her stomic and in pain.
In Blood of ten chiefs, Zarhan manage to delay recognition with Cheseri for 10! years, by refusing to let himself feel it. He spends all his energy ignoring the pull of recognition until it fades for a bit, but it does come back. I may remember incorrectly, but I think it ends with the trickster clan tying him down, for Cheseri to fullfill recognition.

I think Ember's rejection of recognition, resembles Strongbow's rejecting Timmain a lot. As if they decide to break the links between minds

Tam

I think Leetah's success in denying Recognition was due to her healing abilities. The lack of illness in Cutter could have been due to...being a much less whiny character than Teir? *laughs* He didn't eat for days, I remember that bit. It probably just would have gotten worse.

Regarding Strongbow and Timmain, I think he just closed his mind to her. Like...plugging your ears when you don't want to listen to someone. Part of the reason for soul names seems to be to protect against the intimate nature of sending...Timmain's sending seemed to be so powerful it could break down that barrier, so Strongbow was putting up extra defenses by essentially plugging his ears.

travelbug

Tam explained the Strongbow thing so much better than me :)

Tam

Aww, thanks. :)

wingthing

Sigh.... I miss Hidden Years Teir. Heck, I miss Wild Hunt Teir. Aside from his cat necklace and hair/eye color, I see almost nothing of the original Teir in this new guy.

lunakat

You know who is looking pretty hot/sexy/awesome lately, ever since Final Quest started, though? Mender. Oh my gosh. I have never ever considered Mender all that and a bag of cheetos before. In all honesty, he used to seriously annoy me. I'm a big fan of Mender's new, badass makeover!

Thornbrake

And Windkin!!

MultiFacets

So that seals it. Death really isn't a state you necessarily want to come back from if you're an elf.

travelbug


@lunakat Mender was pretty hot to begin with ;)

lunakat

@travelbug- I never thought so. I actually thought Tier was quite a bit hotter... at least until this storyline. Mender, imo, was just... eh. But now it's flipped. It seems like Tier is having a really inappropriate and regressive crisis in the middle of, frankly, an actual crisis... every other page! While Mender is taking care of the situation in an adult manner. I'm not a violent person- but I greatly admired how he killed the bad guys. That was so cold blooded- and efficient. Ember was all "take my helpless lifemate and run!" And Mender was like "Right after I finish cleaning up this. Okay- they're dead now. Let's go." Super capable. I always saw him as kind of superficial before- but now I see that he is so freakin capable. Tier... is the opposite of capable at the moment. He's an incredibly dramatic and helpless liability. Mender is the guy you want in your tribe when the shizer hits the fan.

lunakat

If this series were the Walking Dead- Mender would still be alive several books in- and so would everyone who hung out with him. Tier would be dead by now. Tier would have gotten all his friends killed as well. Tier would be a zombie.

Stefan

Windkin always had that sexyness about him... but..i do not like his Final Quest outfit at all...
@ Lunakat.. i had the same reaction with Teir,

RedheadEmber

One thing I find rather strange about Teir is that just a short while before his "DON'T LEAVE ME!!!!" fit he's actually the one who 'solves the problem' - so to speak - about the lack of tree-cover "Run for the bend ahead."

travelbug

image
Wendy's Mender was gorgeous to begin with, but his personality was anoying.
Rereading HY 4, I feel a bit uneasy with his heroworship of Cutter and Leetah.

I still like Windkin, Teir and Shenshen best of all the elves ;)

Arg. Stupid tablet turns all my pics around for some reason :(

Tam

I think Mender's developed well...and I think, if he was regaled with stories of Cutter and Leetah as he grew up, it would be hard NOT to have that hero worship. But he's grown up now, and knows better. ;)

RedheadEmber

travelbug said: Rereading HY 4, I feel a bit uneasy with his heroworship of Cutter and Leetah.


Yeah... I kinda got some they're my totally awesome heroes and I can get into their daughters... leather-bikini-pants! vipes.

lunakat

RedheadEmber said: One thing I find rather strange about Teir is that just a short while before his "DON'T LEAVE ME!!!!" fit he's actually the one who 'solves the problem' - so to speak - about the lack of tree-cover "Run for the bend ahead."


Yes, but... this was a very obvious kind of problem solving- don't you think? It doesn't a genius to shout "run for the bend!" Tier isn't completely useless. He's just really erratic. Like- sometimes he seems to be okay- and other times he goes ballistic and attacks an army of humans, or cries over his mom in a moment of crisis, or tries to have sex with the leader of the elves while she is trying to make important and urgent decisions, or just plain falls off a cliff because his girlfriend hangs up on him... right at the moment that everyone was about to escape.

Delhya

I think Teir is representing a Character we have not seen before with his "issues" so to speak. He has to learn to work through them. When you get burned socially as many times as he has and been solo from elves as long as he has, that is a very difficult thing to do.

It is kind of like having a addiction to being a hermit instead of a drug. It' is not that he can't be around them and does not like it; but every time he get's his balance and is standing confident and happy with others he get's the rug yanked out from underneath him so to speak. Chronic repetition like that screws with anyone and not everyone can just brush it off and bounce back right away if every. I feel like seeing Kahvi and talking with her will help him get himself together.

Think of it this way a child given up by their mom or parents that they can remember, possible bounce from home to home or and then stuck on their own alone. Finally learns to trust again after many years (storyarch after wild hunt we don't see much of)
falls in love and plan has a future with said love and family he cares about. Then poof gone with warning.

Sorry my very LOOONG two cents maybe I made a dollar. ^_^

Delhya

lunakat said: He's just really erratic. Like- sometimes he seems to be okay- and other times he goes ballistic and attacks an army of humans, or cries over his mom in a moment of crisis, or tries to have sex with the leader of the elves while she is trying to make important and urgent decisions, or just plain falls off a cliff because his girlfriend hangs up on him... right at the moment that everyone was about to escape.


This is actually pretty head on the nail how a person can react. I think it is because he is trying, but it is a little more than he can handle all at once. Mostly because all the suppressed things he had been trying to deal with from his (or not as the case may also be) are coming back on him all at once and he can't handle it 24/7 enter erratic melt down mode. It is just we don't always get to see that side of people b/c they hide it.

Also Ember did a little more than hang up on him. ;-D She disconnected the link between their souls. I feel like that would be a unexpected punch to the face from your best friend.

Thornbrake

lunakat said: or just plain falls off a cliff because his girlfriend hangs up on him...




=)) :x >:> :-j >:D

RedheadEmber

lunakat said: Tier isn't completely useless. He's just really erratic. Like- sometimes he seems to be okay- and other times he goes ballistic and attacks an army of humans, or cries over his mom in a moment of crisis, or tries to have sex with the leader of the elves while she is trying to make important and urgent decisions, or just plain falls off a cliff because his girlfriend hangs up on him... right at the moment that everyone was about to escape.


If he is Kahvi's son... and Kahvi is Two-Spear's daughter. Then I gotta say it seems crazy runs in the family.

travelbug

Oh I like Delhya's explanation :)
Also, I think we forget for a bit that that in the story it's only been a night, a day and it's sundown/nightfall again, since Teir sniffed Kahvi's braid. Not much time at all to sort out his thoughts and issues and clear his head.
(We, the readers, have waited nearly nine months, ;) )

I hope Kahvi will help Teir with his issues :)

Heather

travelbug said: I think we forget for a bit that that in the story it's only been a night, a day and it's sundown/nightfall again, since Teir sniffed Kahvi's braid. Not much time at all to sort out his thoughts and issues and clear his head.

That's such an important point. We are actually seeing just a handful of hours pass in the storyline. But to us, since it's taken some months to get it all, it seems longer. Ember hasn't been captive for months or even days at this point, but just a few hours.

Delhya

Also very valid points @Heather

Mkal

And the mystery of who his mother is has been solved. Now, who was his sire?

lunakat

@Mkal- I'm guessing Windkin.

travelbug said: Oh I like Delhya's explanation

Yes, me too! And both Travelbug and Heather made a good point about how brief an amount of time has passed.

Thornbrake

lunakat said: And both Travelbug and Heather made a good point about how brief an amount of time has passed.


Yeah, and when we finally have the Final Quest graphic novel Vol 1 and can read this in one chunk, I think it'll be a lot more clear how little time has passed. (You can pre-order it right here.)

lunakat

I do think we have seen some of Tier's issues before in other elves. Skywise had some issues with abandonment for a while (and I quote- multiple times- "you abandoned me!")- and l'oss of mommy' trauma flashbacks (book 2). Windkin is a case study in the 'mysterious loner' category. I guess that's why Dewshine drew a parallel between him and Tier. And Cutter has experienced denied recognition. Suntop has done the whole 'Winnowil is inside my head' trip. And I know at least one or two elves have spazzed out and done their own thing, launching everyone else into trouble. So Tier isn't the first to have these issues. He just might be the fest character to have them all at once..

lunakat

Thanks for the link, Thornbrake!

Llannen

There is this sneaking suspicion I am worried about...that Kahvi isn't Teir's mom (despite him smelling her braid and having a flashback and her calling him duckling). The spoiler was to lead us down that pathway of thinking she is. I want to say the spoiler made it too easy? And I adore/worship Elfmom and Elfpop but they are sneaky..... >:>

Tam

*laughs* I think you might have fallen for one too many red herrings? I'm 100% confident they're mother and son now. I don't think they strategically lay out each issue so that there are spoilers in each preview, only to yank them away when the issue comes out. =)) Or at least I hope not!

lunakat

Seeing her spirit and calling her 'mother' is a pretty strong hint that she's his mom. I actually don't think the Pinis have ever really been that into red herrings. They foreshadow, and the foreshadowing is usually born out.

Tam

Elfmom talks about red herrings all the time on Facebook. XD

Llannen

Tam said: *laughs* I think you might have fallen for one too many red herrings?


You probably nailed it on the head. I need to quit over thinking, keep reading the threads, buckle in and enjoy the ride.

RedheadEmber

I GOT IT!

Teir is gonna be saved by a giant red herring! As in, a literal red herring!

lunakat

Tam said: Elfmom talks about red herrings all the time on Facebook. XD


But how many red herrings have we actually seen in the Wendy-written storylines?

lunakat

I think Red is right!

Tam

lunakat said: But how many red herrings have we actually seen in the Wendy-written storylines?


If she told us, I think that would defeat the purpose :p She and Elfpop keep saying they've been leaving little clues all along, and when the story's complete, we'll be able to go back and pick those out. That means the red herrings have to stay unrevealed.

lunakat

Tam said: If she told us, I think that would defeat the purpose


I didn't mean how many red herrings are we going to see. I meant how many have we ever seen in any of the Pini-written Elfquest? Were there a truckload of red herrings in the Original Quest? Because, if so, I don't remember them.

What I do remember is some very straightforward foreshadowing and good use of suspense. But that's different than a red herring.

lunakat

The closest I remember the Original Quest coming to having red herrings was when Winnowil stated that the Gliders were the 'High Ones' and implied that Blue Mountain was the legendary 'mountain thing.' But even then, as a reader, you kind of knew that wasn't the case. Mostly what I remember Wendy doing is being very good at setting up mysteries and then tying up the lose ends and connecting the dots with a great storytelling flare. She used foreshadowing. She created suspense. But she didn't set you up to expect something that didn't happen, or pull the rug out from under your assumptions. She built up your expectations and then fulfilled them.

Thornbrake

lunakat said: Were there a truckload of red herrings in the Original Quest? Because, if so, I don't remember them.


Rayek dying in the desert only to turn up with the Go-Backs was a huge red herring. That's probably the strongest example. Otherwise, there are more loose examples that largely come from what Wendy and Richard write and say that could be interpreted in many different ways. The fact that we're still debating (until issue #4 of Final Quest) whether Kahvi is dead, and who Teir's parents are I think is the result of this.

lunakat

Thornbrake said: The fact that we're still debating (until issue #4 of Final Quest) whether Kahvi is dead, and who Teir's parents are I think is the result of this.


I think that's actually called a mystery. Every indication up till now has been that Kahvi is dead and that she is Tier's mom. There just hasn't been confirmation until now. A red herring, I think, wouldn't have us going 'yep- that was right- she's dead and his mom'-- it would have us, rather, saying 'OMG! I never would have guessed that was going to be the case, because all signs pointed to his Kahvi being alive and Tier's mom being Savah!' or something...

Thornbrake said: Rayek dying in the desert only to turn up with the Go-Backs was a huge red herring.

Yes- that was definitely a red herring. That is a total, legit, honest to goodness, swam up when we didn't expect it, red herring. But I think it's one of a very few.

Tam

I think a red herring depends on whether or not an individual reader perceives it that way. If you were fooled, the red herring was successful. I think some of them are still unrevealed in Original Quest, so no one can say how many we've seen, because we don't know how everything will turn out.

But ultimately, I was just teasing @Llannen. :p I think Elfmom's mentions of red herrings causes more anxiety in readers than any actual red herrings in the books.

Knightbird

I have read several posts about fans not really liking Teir. But you know I can see where he is coming from and I can sympathize with him. I know how it feels to be alone and not being able to fit in. When your alone as long as he has been you will understand. I worked a job that seperated me from the public, it starts to wear you.

I do think that Kahvi is his mother and I think...Tyldak is his father. She knew she could not raise him and give him the attention he needed so she adopted him out. Just my thoughts.

RedheadEmber

Just one question:

What he hell does Kahvi mean "your comely butt"? Have you seen Windkin's butt on the first page? Not exactly what I'd call comely! >:>

Delhya

RedheadEmber said: What he hell does Kahvi mean "your comely butt"? Have you seen Windkin's butt on the first page? Not exactly what I'd call comely!


Per the dictionary

1 : pleasurably conforming to notions of good appearance, suitability, or proportion
2
: having a pleasing appearance : not homely or plain


I think you were thinking The last definition

Homely

1
: suggestive or characteristic of a home
2
: being something familiar with which one is at home
3
a : unaffectedly natural : simple
b : not elaborate or complex
4
: plain or unattractive in appearance





lunakat

I just realized- Dewshine's comparison of Tier to Windkin is all the more apt because Windkin is probably either Tier's brother or father. And they would have similar features or expressions, possibly the same look in the eye, as consequence.

RedheadEmber

Yeah... actually been thinking about that for a while now. How Dewshine's (seemingly) random mention of Windkin wasn't just a cue that he'd turn up soon, but actually a hint of some sort of relation between him and Teir.

BTW; realise something? If Teir turns out to be Windkin's son, then it'll mean that Dewshine brough her own grandson Down to be basically sacrificed to the shape changed.
Also, it'll be the weirdest family on WoTM.

stargazer

What, weirder than Winnowill, Smelt and Two Edge? ;-)

lunakat

Wierder than Newstar, her brother's daughter, Dart and Kimo?

Llannen

Tam said: I think Elfmom's mentions of red herrings causes more anxiety in readers than any actual red herrings in the books.


Totally, this describes it. Anxiety. I need a glass of wine to read the next issue. That way my sob fests will make more sense to those around me.

RedheadEmber said: How Dewshine's (seemingly) random mention of Windkin wasn't just a cue that he'd turn up soon, but actually a hint of some sort of relation between him and Teir.


Yes!!! I know @Thornbrake and Ryan say this on the podcasts but going back and reading the series over and over again to see things with new eyes and realize it was in front of you all along.

RedheadEmber

lunakat said: Wierder than Newstar, her brother's daughter, Dart and Kimo?


I'd say so, yeah. Dart had a childhood fling with Newstar - which could've been just a result of them being the youngest children, other than Suntop and Ember - then, many years later, after lovemate (Shushen) had died he recognized Serrin (Wing's daughter) and was in a relationship with her, and her other lifemate. Now he's really good friends with Kimo, Newstar's son.

This family I'm talking about:
Dewshine and Scouter are in a relationship, Dewshine then has a child with Tyldak from Recognition, Scouter takes over fatherly-duties. So far, so good, then the Palace Disappearance happens.
Because of their mortality Dewshine and Scouter go into wrapstuff to await the return of the Palace, while Windkin - who's been rendered immortal by Winnowill - stays awake for the 10,000 year period, becoming not only older than his mother, but also older than his grandsire, who's sleeping over in the New Land. Meanwhile Scouter's and Dewshine's respective surviving parents also become lifemates, making Dewshine and Scouter step-siblings - at least from a human PoV.
While the Wolfriders are sleeping Windkin spends some time travelling around with his sire and his sire's lovemate, then when his sire sadly passes away, he has a son with his sire's lovemate, who's either also older than his grandparent or at least rather close to her in age, and then just so happens to recognize the daughter of his grandmother's cousin.

sulken

haven't Windkin, Dewshine and Teir already met? I mean in the special. On page 43 (digital) there's a panel on the top with Dewshine, Windkin (reunion) and Teir in it (Well, and Krim, so it has to be before the current events).

Even though Dewshine's question ("I wonder where he [Windkin] is now") seems rather silly, now...

lunakat

RedheadEmber said: I'd say so, yeah. Dart had a childhood fling with Newstar - which could've been just a result of them being the youngest children, other than Suntop and Ember - then, many years later, after lovemate (Shushen) had died he recognized Serrin (Wing's daughter) and was in a relationship with her, and her other lifemate. Now he's really good friends with Kimo, Newstar's son.


I'd put it this way:
Dart and Newstar probably had a youthful fling. Then, many years later, Dart recognized Newstar's niece, Serrin- and made a baby with her. Now, he's more than casually involved in a most likely friendship-plus with Newstar's son, Kimo (who is also first cousin to his baby-mama). Newstar, meanwhile, is hooking up with her brother in law.

When you really consider all the interconnections that all the Wolfriders seem to have- well, it's not that atypical of the Dewshine-Tier family situation. BTW- Tier, Dewshine's possible grandson or step son, just recognized her cousin's daughter.

lunakat

Jerry Springer would have a field day with the elves.

RedheadEmber

When you think about it; all the elves are involved in some pretty... interesting... family-constellations.
Luckily for them they don't give a flying puckernut about the so-called "weirdness".

travelbug

Human standards just dont fit the elves. They live to long and are to few for that.

Tam

This is one of the big reasons I'm interested in a comprehensive family tree. I like to see where the connections are, because...it amuses me. *laughs* I'm also the family genealogist, so I just like family trees too.

Heather

travelbug said: Human standards just dont fit the elves. They live to long and are to few for that.


So true. And Wendy has said that elf DNA doesn't work like human DNA, so the concerns we would have about family members breeding together wouldn't necessarily be there.

RedheadEmber

For me what's weird about the "Dewshine-Family" isn't that some of them are, or might be, somewhat related to each other. It's the fact that the age-relations between them are... messed up. What with Windkin being older than his grandfather and everything.

travelbug

To the elves, time is nothing much to think about. After all most of them live forever, and even if they dont, they still live a very long time.
Age doesn't mean much in the long run. This is a part of a conversation with Tyleet and Nightfall in Dreamtime:
Nightfall: a mother is always proud of her young. Be they helpless at birth or no, she'll guard them with her life..
Tyleet: ..until they're no longer children. Until they're big enough to be called friends!

As fans, I think we overthink lots of little details, but I guess that's just a part of being a fan ;)

maatkare22

Is it terrible that I'm wholly unimpressed with "Khavi Ex-Machina?" And I'm so unengaged with Teir (or those stupid kids) at this point that I don't really care what his parentage is. I think this EQ series really HAS to be read in collected form because the drawn-out printing schedule is clashing too strongly with the short time passage of the story. Re-reading the original quest in my snazzy new collected edition just draws into focus the superb pacing of those early arcs, not to mention the insane number of story pages in each issue.

Tam

I don't think it's terrible, no. ;) But I want to point out that I don't think this is necessarily Kahvi ex-machina. If she wasn't dead, some other spirit would have taken her place in the rescue of Teir. It just wouldn't be as personal.

I do look forward to getting a little distance from the stories, and coming back to them in a big collected graphic novel. :)

RichardPini

maatkare22 said: I think this EQ series really HAS to be read in collected form because the drawn-out printing schedule is clashing too strongly with the short time passage of the story


Exactly. For the story, it's been a day, two at most. For the readers, it's been months. We're getting the strong impression that it's difficult, if not impossible, for readers to shift gears - especially the emotional ones - back and forth from storytime to realtime and back again. Which is why we grit our teeth and soldier on when people gripe about the seeming superficiality of Teir's drama or Ember's decisions or what have you. This sh*t's happening wham-bam during a battle, then during a retreat, over the course of hours, sometimes mere moments. It's harsh, it's sudden and it's intense, and characters will react strongly. Just to spotlight one example (of several): Cutting off Recognition is not like breaking up with your current BFF. It's a psychic knife to the gut. Picture yourself hanging by fingernails hanging on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon and suddenly you know, in mind and gut and every nerve-ending you own, that the love of your life has been brutally murdered. And you've telepathically experienced her/his dying, pain- and terror-filled moments. That's the kind of grip that Recognition can have, both coming and going.

We don't expect that everyone's will grok that, or even want to. But that's how we're writing it.

travelbug

Elfpop, Thank you very much for explaining the bond of recognition (and the rest too) :)

Stormsong8

In the BOTC books it has been said that Recognition could strike any elf. Uncles, nieces, brothers, once, twice removed, it cared not who the parents were, just that the best traits of both elves would show up in the new cub.

Delhya

Thanks ElfPop!!! You of course got it in a Puckernut shell. ^_^

lunakat

RichardPini said: Picture yourself hanging by fingernails hanging on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon and suddenly you know, in mind and gut and every nerve-ending you own, that the love of your life has been brutally murdered. And you've telepathically experienced her/his dying, pain- and terror-filled moments.


What's so hard about that? Telepathic Bruce Lee did that just last week! Boy needs to man his wolf-riding, magical, pointy-eared self up!

- Sincerely, undead John Wayne.

Thornbrake

RichardPini said: We're getting the strong impression that it's difficult, if not impossible, for readers to shift gears - especially the emotional ones - back and forth from storytime to realtime and back again.


Many fans do seem to be having an issue with this. I wonder how many of those that do were first introduced to Elfquest via the graphic novels and/or are not serial comics readers? They might just not have the experience to know how this all works. In which case, I'd say stick your storytelling guns and tell the story the way that you see best.

I'm also curious to know if you ever got this kind of feedback from prior storylines. Is there something different about how you're telling Final Quest? Are readers today just different?

RichardPini said: Which is why we grit our teeth and soldier on when people gripe about the seeming superficiality of Teir's drama or Ember's decisions or what have you.... Cutting off Recognition is not like breaking up with your current BFF.


I hope you know that 99% of our griping and poking fun of Teir is just a little bit of fun. As I said in the last episode, even though I pick on him a little bit, I personally do actually like Teir and think he's a really interesting character. As we react to specific actions and events, however, without the benefit of the bigger picture or knowing where Teir as a character is going, sometimes we fans might be a little too focused on the here and now, 'cause it's all we got!
>:>

lunakat

Thornbrake said: I hope you know that 99% of our griping and poking fun of Teir is just a little bit of fun. As I said in the last episode, even though I pick on him a little bit, I personally do actually like Teir and think he's a really interesting character. As we react to specific actions and events, however, without the benefit of the bigger picture or knowing where Teir as a character is going, sometimes we fans might be a little too focused on the here and now, 'cause it's all we got!


Quite true. For a mamby-pamby, mama's boy, he's alright.

lunakat

alright- just kidding. Tier is okay.

RichardPini

Thornbrake said: I'm also curious to know if you ever got this kind of feedback from prior storylines. Is there something different about how you're telling Final Quest? Are readers today just different?


We've certainly seen a big difference over the years, between those readers to took the years-long ride with us, and those who had the benefit of the entire banquet all at one sitting. Very different reactions and perceptions to the same events. There's really no difference between how we're telling the story now, versus how we've always told it - well, aside from the fact that we've got 20 pages per issue now, where we used to have more. But that's a nit, in that it only affects a superficial aspect of the story rhythm. Remember in the original days, you got 28-32 pages every four months, which is substantially less than the 20 pages every two months you're getting now. So, logically, people can't be griping about the amount of material, because it's actually more now than when we started. And we're still telling exactly the story we want to tell, in the manner and at the pacing we want to tell it, as we always have.

From where I sit, the substance lies in your last question, "Are readers today just different?" (Here, I don my flame-retardant battle suit.) I say yes, very much so, in two ways, both internet-born and -related. One, the sheer amount of information available, and the tsunami-like delivery of it, means that everything of necessity gets taken in faster and faster. The time we used to devote to quiet reflection is simply gone. It's just the nature of 21st century digital culture. To have any hope of keeping up, we must skim. We don't give ourselves the time to dive deep. So immediate, superficial impressions become the baseline.

Two, because we now have instant digital connection between and among everyone and everything, a new social paradigm has arisen and metastasized. I'm not sure if there's an actual term for it, but it expresses itself as a form of entitlement. If both you and I have equal access to the internet (particularly via social media) then - as we are surely seeing every day - everyone has the ability to say whatever they want, to or about whomever they want, about anything on their minds. There is no filter. Anyone can be as polite or as crude as they want. People will say things from behind a digital veil of anonymity that they would never utter in person. Some assume familiarity where none truly exists, simply because everyone has equal access to Facebook. Or Twitter. Or here. Fandom is nothing like it used to be.

And, like everything else, there are upsides to that and downsides. The upside - for us, anyway, I don't want to presume upon how any other writers/artists feel about it - is that we have access to more fan feedback than ever. The downside? Same thing.

lunakat

RichardPini said: Two, because we now have instant digital connection between and among everyone and everything, a new social paradigm has arisen and metastasized. I'm not sure if there's an actual term for it, but it expresses itself as a form of entitlement. If both you and I have equal access to the internet (particularly via social media) then - as we are surely seeing every day - everyone has the ability to say whatever they want, to or about whomever they want, about anything on their minds.

That's the point of having a forum, though- isn't it? For everyone to be able to participate and discuss?

RichardPini saidThere is no filter. Anyone can be as polite or as crude as they want. People will say things from behind a digital veil of anonymity that they would never utter in person. Some assume familiarity where none truly exists, simply because everyone has equal access to Facebook. Or Twitter. Or here. Fandom is nothing like it used to be.


That is true of a lot of areas online. But I don't think people on this forum have traditionally been too rude or abrasive. It's happened occasionally- but overall, I think we have a pretty nice culture here.

When you are dealing with a wide demographic, though- you are always going to get all types. And there's always going to be that one or the other person who is a little out of left field.

I will say though, you and Wendy have been very open to interacting with fans. I think it's unusual. It's very nice of you. I'm sorry if any of us have overstepped boundaries and/or taken advantage of that.


Rob

Thornbrake said: I hope you know that 99% of our griping and poking fun of Teir is just a little bit of fun.


travelbug

Richard Pini wrote:
Cutting off Recognition is not like breaking up with your current BFF. It's a psychic knife to the gut. Picture yourself hanging by fingernails hanging on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon and suddenly you know, in mind and gut and every nerve-ending you own, that the love of your life has been brutally murdered. And you've telepathically experienced her/his dying, pain- and terror-filled moments. That's the kind of grip that Recognition can have, both coming and going.


I'm taking back what I said about Teir having a little dramaqueen moment. I have been re-reading the preview a bunch of times now, and I think it looks more like he's giving up.
Which I was not expecting from him, as I see him as someone who holds on to what he wants.
(He did wait years for Ember to let him back into the tribe)
Elfpop's explanation of Ember and Teir's recognition makes me think Teir gave up hope and stopped fighting, believing Ember has been killed :((
looks like he gets at least two big hits to his head too..

Oh well, one week to go :)

Tam

A few of us have gotten early access to the issue, thanks to what I'm guessing is a glitch in the app. Do we wanna discuss here, or new thread?

lunakat

OMG- no fair. They took it down! Grrr.

Ok- You better discuss- cus I can't read it. Just... maybe make a big note of SPOILER ALERT at the top of your comments, for anyone who doesn't want to have the story spoiled.

travelbug

Lucky you to get a sneak peak @-)
I woke up today, thinking it was publishing day for #5, only to discover it was another day to wait.

So far there have been a new tread made for the whole issue when it is released, and a different one for front page and previews. I guess it is to keep the spoilers separate from the "waiting for comic release tread" for those who wish to avoid spoilers.

(I love spoilers, bring them on :) )

zurcdurka

I got it too! So many answers!

Heather

"A few of us have gotten early access to the issue, thanks to what I'm guessing is a glitch in the app. Do we wanna discuss here, or new thread?"
It is always okay to start a new thread, especially when talking about whole issues vs the previews.
I started one here http://www.elfquest.com/forums/discussion/8499/fq-issue-5-spoilers#latest

Llannen

travelbug said: I woke up today, thinking it was publishing day for #5, only to discover it was another day to wait.


Because of this and knowing that @Tam got the issue I totally sent my husband to the comic book store. Then I was mad and calmed down to order online and saw the date it is supposed to be out. Oops. At least I didn't say anything to regret. :( :-S

Tam

Heather said: It is always okay to start a new thread, especially when talking about whole issues vs the previews.


Thanks! :D

DanWillig

Anyone else having trouble with the Dark Horse app? The issue is there but the price won't load. So frustrating...

lunakat

I had to try twice

DanWillig

Meh, still didn't work after several tries. Ended up driving out to a comic shop.

Thornbrake

@DanWillig yes, apparently Dark Horse was having problems on the back end with their app. Seems to be fixed now. I was able to download the issue early this morning.