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Couple of odd questions


1. A friend who works at my comic shop told me recently that the CBLDF had to step in because either someone is trying to sue Warp or a comic shop for selling indecent material to a minor. Apparently, a parent was offended by a birth scene in one of the comics that their child bought. A birth scene!! Can anyone shed some light on this? Is this recent news or old news?

2. I was reading the EQ board on DC comics message boards and someone mentioned a feud between Dave Sim and Richard Pini. I've tried looking for this on Google but found nothing. Anyone know what that was about?

3. What's your favourite brand of cereal?


Hmm, not too often you get to say "apparently, a parent..."


Yes- that's old news. But worth a mention never the less. It is odd what people will take offense at. I saw the panel in question- it doesn't show anything inappropriate- and it has a very nice message about community and acceptance of the child (re: birth scene).

My fav. cereal:

Also big fan of: Special K and Rice Krispies.



Yes- that's old news. But worth a mention never the less. It is odd what people will take offense at. I saw the panel in question- it doesn't show anything inappropriate- and it has a very nice message about community and acceptance of the child (re: birth scene).

Was it the birth of Tyleet from Book 7? I've always loved that scene.


Oh, I almost forgot:


3. What's your favourite brand of cereal?

I don't eat cereal anymore, but it used to be Kix...


I"m guessing it's Tyleet's birth.

I've always loved the healthy cereal but my current fav is Cinnemon Life.

Any soda lovers out there? I love A&W Sparkling Vanilla Cream Soda. Most soda doesn't really have a good taste, just that burning sweetness taste, but A&W SVCS tastes so good!


i didn't know bout the offense birth. Sheesh. If you don't like that stuff, then just don't let your kids read it. I hate parents that try to get shows cancelled cuz they don't want their lil brats watching it.

also don't know nothing bout no feuds with Pini and anyone.

Favorite cereal--hmm. I do love cereal. I eat alot of Frosted Mini-Wheats and i like Pops and Crispix. Any actual fav probably switches from week to week.


Actually there is a birth scene in book four. Menders birth I believe.


I thought it was a beautiful scene.
As for lazy parents that drives me crazy. They completly miss the point of parenthood. To activly teach your children right from wrong in you culture. Not sue if you dont like it. (but that's just me) :?

Fav cereal... Frosted mini-wheats and corn pops(Igota have my POPS)



i didn't know bout the offense birth. Sheesh. If you don't like that stuff, then just don't let your kids read it. I hate parents that try to get shows cancelled cuz they don't want their lil brats watching it.

From what my friend said, it was a southern family so it could've been a bible thumpin' family. No offense to bible thumpers here. Wink I doubt the parents knew what their kid was buying and just happened upon the issue of Elfquest. And of course none of us feel that scene is offensive.

As for censorship, I feel we need some sort of censorship. I don't believe the F-word should be allowed on TV but we're getting there. You hear the F and the CK and only the U is bleeped out. If we didn't have censorship, you might as well have porn on Sesame Street. You have to draw the line somewhere and it seems in our society, that line keeps getting erased to the point where pretty soon we'll have the freedom to do anything. I'm all for freedom, but I believe in freedom with responsibility. I certainly don't want to see, in the future, the F-word being the word of the day on Sesame Street while Big Bird and Snuffleupagus are gettin' freaky in the next scene.


favorite cereal... hmm Cap N crunch, frosted flakes and cookie crisp.hmmmmmmm


I know that old story - apparently some guy was selling old Elfquest comics, and a kid bought the issue with Mender's birth. As it happens, the kid's dad was angry with the seller over something else, and used the "indecency" of the comic to attack the seller.

I like Honey Bunches of Oats.


Oh yeah I forgot. With out a doubt my Fav. Cereal...Lucky Charms all the way. What was saturday mornings without cartoons and "marshmallow Magic"


How in the world did cartoons get taken away from Saturday morning? I know there are still a few on, but for the most part, the network channels all have crap. Remember those days? Man, I would wake up at 7 in the morning and watch them all the way until noon. Saturday morning cartoons was, for kids, the biggest thing on TV. And it was hard to watch just one channel. Each channel had some dumb cartoon, which allowed you to switch over to one of the other channels and watch something else. Now that I think about it, if Elfquest would've been made into a cartoon, I don't think it would've been that bad. It wouldn't have to follow the main quest. It couldv'e just been about the Wolfriders in the holt, trying to stay away from the humans. It worked for the Smurfs.

I don't know what it was like for some of you other countries, but here in America, Sat. morning cartoons were awesome. People say that today's kids just sit in front of TVs all day. Well, we sat in front of TVs during Sat. mornings back in the 70s and 80s, but afterwards when GOLF and stupid NEWS programs came on, we went outside and played, sometimes acting out what we just saw on the cartoons.

Ahh, memories...


I hear you there King. Those were the times. Especially from 83' to about 87'. Actually I heard they tried to turn Elfquest into a cartoon. the pinis even talked to the stations about it. Supposedly it came to a halt of all things over "mixed marrage". I guess they didnt like that Leetah was dark and Cutter pale. I could be wrong about this but I seem to recall reading about it. If anyone else has heard the same oneway or another let me know.


Yeah, I think they talk about it in the Gatherum.



Also read of this earlier, and I start to wonder if I didn't post the link here earlier too.. but can't find anything now. I might as well quote the entire article from the page I read, in case it for some reason decides to go missing one day.. The so called offending scene is also linked here :roll:

I don't think I've found the mentioning of this in the Gatherum though, yet..

And yepp, article from the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund page:
>"ELFQUEST: Busted in West Virginia"

December 1999
ELFQUEST: Busted in West Virginia

A 36-year-old West Virginia social worker was awakened at 12:30 a.m. on July 13, 1999 by a pounding on his door. Outside, police officers were waiting to take him into custody. The charge: selling a copy of Elfquest to a minor.

Earlier that day the man had been removing comic books from the trunk of his car some days after attending a flea market. He was approached by three neighborhood boys, two eight years old, and one age eleven. They were interested in the collection, and the man sold each child an issue of Elfquest: New Blood for a quarter.

One of the eight-year-olds came back that evening to return the comic, explaining that his mother did not want him to keep it. The man refunded the boy's quarter. Their conversation was overheard by the man's next-door neighbor, the grandfather of the other eight-year-old boy. Apparently offended by unspecified scenes in the comic, the grandfather called the man "a pervert" and accused him of selling smut to children.

Following a verbal altercation between the two men, the grandfather reported the incident to the police. That night, police obtained authorization from the local magistrate for the comic collector's immediate arrest on charges of distributing obscene materials to a minor. A few hours later, he was behind bars in the local jail.

The comic collector was released the next morning on a $5,000 bond. His attorney requested a jury trial and the hearing was set for mid-August, but later postponed until September 2. In West Virginia, the charge of "knowingly distributing obscene materials to a minor" carries a sentence of up to one year in jail and/or a $1,000 fine, in addition to associated court and legal fees.

Click here to view the "offending" scene from the comic, 1993's Elfquest: New Blood #6. Published by WaRP Graphics, Elfquest is a long-running fantasy series created by the husband and wife team of Richard and Wendy Pini. It's an award-winning series that is often recommended for younger readers. The comic's one scene of partial nudity occurs in the context of a child birth that is depicted as a life-affirming tribal event. The criminal warrant states that "the magazine depicted a group of Elf like creatures, females, nude (no pelvic areas exposed), gathered around some sort of pond."

On the advice of his local comic shop owner, the man contacted the CBLDF for legal and financial assistance. The Fund's Board of Directors voted unanimously to take the case. In his recommendation to the Board, CBLDF Legal Counsel Burton Joseph said "I have never seen a prosecution as unwarranted, baseless, and bizarre as this case."

"This is what the Fund is all about," said CBLDF Executive Director Chris Oarr. "If you wanted an object lesson in why we exist, you couldn't ask for a better-or worse-example."

Throughout the case, the CBLDF maintained the defendant's anonymity in the hopes that the charges would be both dismissed and suppressed at the preliminary hearing. "Our defendant is a substance-abuse counselor in a small town who sometimes works with adolescents," explained Oarr. "Even if he wins the case, this kind of publicity would be ruinous for his career if it got out. The charge of obscenity carries a huge public stigma, whether the charges are well-founded or not."

"I'm really glad my local comics retailer suggested I contact the CBLDF," said the defendant. "From talking with the Fund and with other comics fans and retailers, I feel like everyone's rooting for me. We're not a bunch of pornographers in trench-coats. We're a responsible, well-educated community, and we can pull together to protect our rights."

Eventually, the charges were dismissed at the preliminary hearing. The material in question fails the common Miller test of obscenity on all counts: there is no lewd exposure of genitalia, no appeal to prurient interest, and the work as a whole clearly has artistic and literary merit. Moreover, the comic does not fulfill the standards of West Virginia's definition of what is obscene to minors, which explicitly requires exposed genitalia. Recognizing this, the district attorney did not object to the defense counsel's motion to dismiss the charge. The CBLDF paid the attorney's retainer and all other legal fees associated with the case.

Ultimately, the Elfquest bust isn't about an obscene or even a salacious comic book. It's about a long-standing feud between the grandfather who filed the charges and the defendant. The grandfather's grudge goes back eight years, to when his daughter was romantically involved with the defendant. In fact, they had a child together- a boy who, eight years later, bought an "obscene" comic for a quarter from his biological father.

The charge of obscenity was just another weapon in this feud, close at hand, easy to use, and potentially very damaging. It can be leveled at a safe distance, and personal motivations can be concealed under concern for what may be harmful to minors. All too often, those who target comic books-cultural extremists, over-eager district attorneys, or grudge-bearing grandfathers-are doing so in order to further their own agendas.

No clue on question number 2..

But then.. Cornflakes :D


All I can say after reading that is...wow.


Well, this is an excerpt of "A Brief and Personal Reminiscence" by Richard Pini, an article which appears in "The Big Elfquest Gatherum":

"We actually made it into pre-production. CBS ordered up storyboards and pre-production drawing and a bible and some script ideas, which we delivered through our animation connection. We - the two of us and the studio folks - even got to make several trips to California to sit with the heads of Childrens' Programming to talk about the proposed show and the directions it might take. Wendy and I shook hands all around, dutifully sat by, and nodded and smiled at all the right places. Things seemed just peachy.
Little did we know.
At the time this was going on, CBS had on the air, at the 11:30 on Saturday morning, a decent little show called "Dungeons and Dragons." It was an adventure show, and it seemed to all concerned that "Elfquest" might make a good back-to-back offering with it. So we began to mold our thinking along those lines - something with adventure, a villain or obstacle to overcome each episode. We knew we'd have to pare down the cast list; Elfquest has dozens of characters and the show and the animators could only deal with a few, but that was all right, we could do it. We'd stick to the core family of the Wolfriders and things'd be fine.

Then we began to get requests for more changes. Example: the main character, Cutter, has a mate, Leetah, who is from the desert tribe of elves. She has dark skin; desert-dwellers do. The dark skin had to go; the network was uncomfortable with the idea of a "mixed marriage." Example: Cutter and Leetah have twins, a boy and a girl. The girl is a real scrapper and will be chief someday; the boy is a gentle mystic. Nope, won't do. Can't have a wimpy boy and a strong girl; change them. Leetah is a healer, she uses magic to knit wounds and heal ills. Nope, can't have that, it's laying on of hands and the Fundamentalists will complain.

And we tried to comply! We really did! We found ways to fudge around CBS's requests and to keep a certain integrity in our story and characters. But then they decided to move "Elfquest" earlier in the morning, to about 9:30 A.M., which meant that we had to retool everything for a younger audience. And we checked our creative egos at the door and managed that as well. Then Pee-Wee Herman came along and bumped us out of our time slot, so CBS said "How about eight in the morning or so?" and we realized they were asking us for the Elfquest equivalent of "The Muppet Babies." We finally had to say no, and the project was left to die when the developement period was over - April 15, 1986, as I recall."

So there you have it.


yeah I thought I read that. Thats really sad. both in the dissapointing and pathetic way.


Wow, thanks for all the information, everyone! I have Gatherums 1 and 2, but not the Big Gatherum. I guess some stuff got into it that didn't into the two separate ones.

This is very sad, and it's too bad, even twenty years ago, that the networks would be so concerned about racial and gender-related issues like that. Given the amount of strong females and wimpy males in cartoons today, I doubt if that particular issue would be a problem now. Not that Suntop is at all wimpy! Apparently the network just didn't get it at all!

As far as Saturday morning cartoons, yeah, I sure remember when that was the only time a kid could watch cartoons. I'm not sure I don't like it better the way things are now. I mean, any time the kids want to watch something, there's something on that's appropriate for them to see. As long as you don't then go overboard and let them watch too often or too much. It is convenient, for instance, to have something for my five-year-old to watch for half an hour when his nine-year-old sister is doing homework and can't play with him, and I'm trying to get dinner. Sure he can entertain himself, but sometimes it's just nice to let him watch a cartoon.

The thing is that parents can and should set their own TV limits for their kids. The fact that there's always something on to watch is only a problem if you let them watch any time there's something on, see what I mean?

On the obscenity issue-- it's kind of funny that this particular comic is one that never got reprinted in the Reader's Collections, I think because the authors decided to redo the story in Wolfrider! so that it was a spider Skywise saves infant Cutter from, instead of a snake. And also because it contains a character that never appears before or after the stories in that issue (the guy with the disk on his headband-- I can't remember his name just now). It's just a peculiar coincidence that this is one comic that didn't get reprinted.

As far as the second question, who is David Sim? Sorry, but I'm clueless.

My favorite cereal-- nothing can beat good old Cheerios!



Oh, wow, I remember that scene now. Dimly. I guess I DID read more New Blood than I thought...

Anyway, how ridiculous. How funny that that old coot made a fuss over it just to get back at his neighbour. I'm sure he could've found a racier scene than THAT to single out. Sheesh.


Dave Sim is the creator of Cerebus, another highly successful independent comic. I've actually never read it.


Ya gotta be kiddin' me!

Yeah, that there Elfquest and its devil comic ilk is the worst kinda porn, warping the minds of children!


Imagine actually READING a book and seeing what's really in it before burning it.

*sigh* Oh, well! Back to raising demons with my Dungeons and Dragons rulebooks now...


Things never change...


Yep- that was a Cutter birth scene. It was odd because Joyleaf was giving birth in the dirt outside the tree with everyone watching. A snake pops up and Skywise strikes it down with a stick..

Another wierd thing about that version was this character "Runner," who I think was supposed to be Longreach. I guess the writer didn't do his homework so well.

It was perfectly innocent- sweet even. No reason to complain about it at all. Shame on the old fart who did!

One thing I kinda liked about it was little Skywise's obsession with his stick- I remember him going "stick, stick, stick.." Seemed like a little-kid thing to do- and a nice precurser to the lodestone obssession.

Tyleet's birth was in Book 8- but it was never shown. We just saw her as an infant snuggling w/Venka up against a wolf. Funny, isn't it, that they never fleshed out a friendship between Tyleet and Venka? One would have thought they would have been close- like sisters. Ah well.

Cerebus, btw, is a great comic!



Tyleet's birth was in Book 8- but it was never shown. We just saw her as an infant snuggling w/Venka up against a wolf. Funny, isn't it, that they never fleshed out a friendship between Tyleet and Venka? One would have thought they would have been close- like sisters. Ah well.

Cerebus, btw, is a great comic!

Oh, duh, of course! I was mixing up Tyleet's "off-screen" birth with Mender's birth scene. Duh.