Necessary "Amendments"?

One of the reasons I'm really glad I'm no elf is, I don't want to recognise anyone or having my soul laid bare to any guy.

Which makes me think of the film.

From a human point of view, one could think of recognition as some form of rapture (or better, a kind of forced marriage). One is forced to "give in" (otherwise it will drive you crazy), no matter if the person want it or not. One is forced to have sex without, necessarily, feeling love. Think of Dewshine.

Try to think of an audience, who doesn't know EQ.

Of course, one could argue, they are elves and they are different of us humans. But: Elfquest is a fiction made by humans for humans. Their emotions are "human concepts" (love, hate, grief).

Wouldn't it be necessary to change the idea of recognition for the film?

Can you think of other parts of Elfquest which would have to be changed?

When you would try to change everything what could irritate or offend anyone in the possible audience ... what would remain of any story?
(besides the commonly accepted *blaah*)

What would remain of EQ concepts?
- Recognition as a form of forced cohabitation? - censored
- sex and reproduction between elf and wolf? - censored
- (low) animal blood mixed (high) elf blood? -censored
- "cloning" Two-Edge? - censored
- promiscuity? - censored
- bi-/homosexual activities and interests? - censored
- the infamous Go-Back orgy? - censored
- three-mating? - censored
- mating like elves do without official/clerical affirmation - censored
- the Sunfolk grown from 5 individuals implies incest - cencsored
- ... I'm sure I've forgotten something ...

What would remain?
- war - fine
- murder - fine
- violence in general - fine
- tortur - fine
- sweet love - fine
- the Palace as home for elven souls - fine ... ?
- ... I'm sure I've forgotten more than something ...

... Oh! ... don't forget to dress Timmain!


Of course a film will not show everything (children should be allowed to visit) and not every concept will be discussed in detail (there's not even the time for it). But it should not be explicit changed - those who know the comics should be able to find the concepts when they look for them behind the plain pictures and words.

You're implying that it's impossible to show "advanced" sexual orientation in films or TV shows, but it's not.

In my favourite TV show (House M.D.) all the things you name for "likely for being censored" are pretty common. Same with Desperate Housewives or Bones. These are all American TV shows (who would want to watch European ones...).
I can imagine the nudity of Timmain would also work.


But recognition is a concept of forced sex. You can't choose, you have to sleep with the other person and to conceive a child.

Orgys are ok, as long as it is consensual. Three-mating is also a common idea. Homo-, Bisexuality? The same. Partnership without clerical blessing? That every-days life (in Europe probably even more than in the US).

Hmm, "cloning" Two-Edge? What do you mean?

Well, prostitution is shown in lots of movies and I haven't heard an uproar yet, and I think that's a lot more offensive than the idea of Recognition.

Recognition might not be wanted, but it's not exactly against the person's will either. A good analogy would be a movie where someone tricks someone else to sleep with them by misrepresenting themselves or the situation. And there's lots of movies about that, too. Comedies, even.

No, I don't

I've intentionally overreacted, catfish. I implied that it would be censored when you try to avoid everything what could irritate or offend anyone in the possible audience - a very theoretical assumption. I'm fully aware that many of the sexual orientations I listed are already shown ... and more or less accepted.

I'm aware as well that there is discussion, too, that watching violance on the screen will abet using violence IRL - so I could have lited it in the "censored" list as well.
The point is that violence of any sort seems much easier accepted than uncommon sexual orientations.

About "cloning" Two-Edge ... partly lack of fitting vocabulary and lazyness. It needed a healer's abilities to bring him to life. IRL you need a laboratory, genetic scientists messing with the genotype of two species.

And dressing Timmain - was just ironical.


Okay, a more specific answer to the Recognition problem.

Nowhere in the storyline (planned as film) Recognition is answered actually against the will of one of the involved persons. Cutter is ready to leave rather than forcing Leetah. Tyldak and Dewshine agree both in joining finally - and they are getting along well afterwards. It's not one person forced to have sex by another one, it's not that one is really devasting the other. They just don't want to stay together.

In my eyes it's more similar to two persons who slept together under the influence of alcohol (though they would never have when sober) than to rapture or even forced marriage.

I don't think Elfquest needs to be dumbed down just because it's going to be made into a movie. If you eliminate recognition, then you eliminate a really interesting moment between Tyldak and Dewshine- not to mention the entire basis for the book one saga of Cutter, Leetah and Rayek... and that would be cheating the audience.

When I was reading EQ in swedish as a kid, I thought that recognition was a really strong attraction. Now, I think more of evolution on a personal plane. The body recognises that the partner is an optimal genetic match and therefor wants to mate with it. I would describe it as physical attraction where the mind is not involved. Not lika rapture at all.

ok, hear my explanation, why I posted that heresy.

When my 14th birthday drew near, my big sister (28) asked me what I want as a birthday-gift. My answer was "Elfenwelt 3" (OQ 5 and 6, I guess). She read the book, with the result, that she warned my mother: "do you know, what she's reading?"

I wondered why and came to the conclusion, it had to be because of some remarks of Leetah and Strongbow*

My sister isn't prude (I think I'm pruder than she is...), so it's definately no sex-scene, which might have worried her.





*when the Wolfriders talk about Leetah's refusal, Strongbow says something like: "he should just take her" ("er sollte sie sich einfach nehmen"), sounds much like "don't bother her wishes, f*** her", at least in German.
And then's that "we're meant to unite and unite" "whithout love?" (--> forced marriage?)

Oh, and when the Wolfriders want to kill the exhausted humans ("kill the child")

But you never asked her what she found objectionable?

I remember when I was about 12 my mom asked me to show Elfquest to one of her friends, who was kind of a mentor to me at the time, and she just looked at it and said dismissively "Oh, more T&A (tits and ass)." This woman was no prude, either, and very liberal and open in most of her views. I think the fact that the elves are all physically perfect makes some people assume there's no substance.

I introduced my friend's children to EQ at the age of about 14, 12, 9 and 5 years. Well, the youngest boy just looked because the older siblings did so ...

When I handed OQ 11 til 20 to the eldest sister I asked my friend to take a look before the little sister got it. I wanted to make sure that her mother was comfortable with ...

... the scenes of torture, violence, war and death!

Is it just me who worries (if I do at all!) about brutality instead of some boobs, naked skin and embraces? Is this an European thing? Or ...???

I'm European, too, but I'm perfectly fine with... er, brutality. I even was as a kid. Kids can take more than adults think. And I never thought about killing pets or something...

Nevertheless, it's not about what children can watch (or not) without being negatively affected. It's about what adults think.

Of course, if the movie would aim at an older audience, there wouldn't be a problem. But since it'll be a Warner film (how many animated films, in the West, are made for an older audience?)...

Adults tend to be far more worried about nudity than children are. For a kid, to be nude is to not have clothes on. Sex is seen as cuddling, as long as it's not blatant (and then it's clear cut pornography). A kid can't see sex in Elfquest.

Babies are made when you touch hands in a special way as far as kids are concerned. (ET anyone?)

Now try to get that into the heads of Warner.... that's actually the problem.

... leaves the question: Am I the only one ... (see above)?

I don't see ANY problem with kids & EQ. In fact, if I'm blessed with kids someday, I plan to introduce them to EQ at a very young age with those bedtime stories and Gift of her Own!
And as soon as they want to read more about those wonderful elves I'll give them the OQ, every single issue they want. And I'll deal with any and all questions they have then

Depends on what age they have and just how much they're able to understand.
I don't have much faith in the children of this day and age...-__-