The Great Elfquest Language Project v.2

Years ago a bunch of Elfquest fans decided to tackle the task of building a "real" EQ language, using character names plus a few hints here and there in the stories as a basis. The project went a little way, then petered out for various reasons. And there it lay until very recently, when I heard from Jeremy Head, the fellow you will meet below. I am excited about this - it may not rival the Klingon Language Project but it could be a ton of fun!

Rather than try to paraphrase his notes to me, I'm going to turn his announcement into one BIG comment following this post. Here we go!

Hello Elfquest fans! My name is Jeremy Head and I have been an Elfquest fan for more than two decades. A while back I came across a thread discussing the idea of creating an elven language for the Elfquest series based on the various language snippets seen throughout the series, as well as based on the names of various Elfquest characters. While some effort was made it seems that the project lost steam. I want to pick up where others left off and I am currently writing an Elfquest language manual and dictionary. Thus far I have identified nearly 300 potential Elfquest words, most of which relate directly to character names. I have also started identifying language mechanics based on this information. It is a long, analytical process but I find it very enjoyable.

While I would continue this project alone I would love for some help! I want to hear from as many of you as possible with regard to your opinions on what certain words and names mean. It would be even better if these opinions were based on evidence found within the Elfquest stories. While I think of myself as fairly knowledgeable about the Elfquest universe I know there are many of you who know much more than me. I would very much appreciate your help.

I am making spreadsheets featuring character names and Elfquest words, and will make them available to view and copy. If you like what you see, use it to make further suggestions on the meanings of yet-unidentified words. If you disagree with translations or meanings I have attempted, write a note explaining why and offer evidence. While I have some background and training in linguistics I am certainly not a master and I would love to hear from others so we can try to get this project moving. Perhaps we can conduct our discussions about theories and opinions in a forum at www.elfquest.com.

I will also provide notes on some language mechanic theories I have collected so we are all on the same page. Again, some of these theories might be right. Many of them are possibly wrong. Many of the meanings I have assigned thus far are simply place holders so I can resort to the old “guess and check” method when no other method is available. If you find some evidence for or against, let me know. You can use my word list to begin your own analysis.

For example:
From my list you will see that EK means “ROCK” or “STONE”
From my list you will also see that AR means “SKILL” or “SKILLED”
U means “HIGH”
Therefore UAR means “HIGH SKILL” or “HIGHLY SKILLED”
The meaning of UAR can then be loosely translated as “MASTER”
And this works perfect for EKUAR (ROCK MASTER). Do you agree or disagree?
Now we have the words for U, AR, and EK. So we can continue our analysis on character such as Yurek, Aurek, Aroree, Kureel, etc. From there we can move onto characters such as Reevol. Then we will uncover the meanings of other words and names. And so on…and so on…

Some rules about this project I would like to propose:
• We are all joined by our passion for Elfquest and so we all need to respect the opinions of others at all times. We don’t always have to agree but lack of respect for each other just won't fly.

• Any word, name, meaning or language rule can be changed if evidence is given and the project reaches a general consensus. We are trying to make this language as complete and accurate as possible. If we make a mistake we can always come back and correct it.

• Wendy and Richard Pini hold final approval of all Elfquest words, names, meanings and language rules. Additionally, they maintain all trademarks and copyrights of any final products. This doesn’t mean we can’t be creative, it simply means that our choices need to accurately reflect the language evidence found within the Elfquest series.

So, let’s dive into those Elfquest books again and start finding some meaning behind all of the Elfquest names and words we love. I look forward to hearing from you.

Shade and Sweet Water,
Jeremy Head
jerms15@hotmail.com

If anyone wants a current copy of the words and names spreadsheets, as well as notes from the current language manual, send me a note. I'll attach them to an email. If you make any adjustments make a note of why so we can discuss it and all be on the same page. Good luck and have fun.

Do you see the elfin language/word formation as alphabetical or phonetics/syllabic -based? How does the fact that elves are also psionic beings play into their language use/creation?

Interesting question, MultiMEDEA. For those elves with the power to "send" I believe their vocabulary is more limited because any confusion in meaning can be clarified. For those elf groups like the Sun Folk I think they will have a much more developed vocabulary as their communication would rely entirely on verbal communication. Also, elf tribes would have more refined definitions for things common in their environment. For example, the Go-Backs may have ten different words for snow to describe various types (pack, powder, dry, slush, etc.) while the Sun Folk may only have one word for snow and it might be a less refined concept (as they rarely see it, if ever). I do not see this as an alphabetic language in regard to a written system (for which there is none, to my understanding). So the language is all verbal and phonetics, syllables, etc. are very important. I am wondering how the elves are influenced by "genetic memory" and to what degree. The fact that the Sun Folk and the Wolfriders both independently gave Sorrow's End the same name might signify that elves will think "no-humps" are "no-humps" because that makes the most sense to the way elves think. Not sure, just something interesting to think about.

A couple "quick" thoughts/questions...

Is this thread to include specific mechanics of language that we remember from the series, as well as derived information logically deduced from what we have read? If so, just wanted to add that indeed, Go-Backs did have a more refined vocabulary for snow, at least compared to the Wolfriders. Not only did they have words for snow the wolfriders didnt (wolfriders referred to it as "whitecold" if I remember, and something like "deathsleep" or something for the season of winter), but used descriptors of snow to describe other things, such as "crustings" for the passage of time.

I also wanted to mention a thought: the basic language is "primal", in that the Trolls, Elves, and Preservers all use the same language throughout the ages, rooted from what was used onboard the shell/"Palace" before becoming marooned on Abode. The Trolls would have little use for the "name-Ability/root" subset of the language as it has magical/spiritual meaning and Trolls are more rooted in function.

Further, it seems to me that while the base language is fixed and the same between all races and tribes, the difference in the range and use of vocabulary between groups could be expressed as dialectal differences, much like how many places in the world speak English, and each can usually communicate fluently with the others, but British english, Austrailian english, American english, and even subgroups of these all have unique ways of expressing similar concepts.

Anyway, what Im getting at is that the Sun Villagers might speak more of a "High Elven", while the Wolfriders might speak a more primal "Low Elven", reinforcing the status differences that some characters impose on the wolfriders throughout the series. This would follow for more that just because they dont send, but that they have an Elder among them that remembers quite a bit of the earlier times, while the Wolfriders have few that were even close to a tenth as old as Savah.

One other note: the elven laguage is nearly impossible for humans to pick up, especially as compared to how easy Elves can pick up human language.

Sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet, Trollhammer. I am going to write a response later this evening. I've been busy with some things. I agree with many of your points and it seems everyone is looking in the same direction on this one so that's great. Talk to you soon.

-Jeremy

In regard to the purpose of this thread, its purpose is to discuss any and all aspects of EQ and the elven language contained within its pages. So yes, it will include specific language mechanics found within EQ as the basis for fleshing out all the missing parts of the language.

It seems we agree about the Go-Backs and how specific elf tribes will most likely have a more diverse vocabulary for specific things. As you mention the "white cold" and the "death sleep" I started thinking about Cutter's wolf "War Frost." This name might imply the Wolfriders already had the name for frost (and I'm assuming they would as frost is even more common than snow). However, the Wolfriders did not know the word "war" until Rayek informed them of its meaning in Book 4 (just prior to the war with the trolls). Not terribly important, just interesting how the chronology of naming wolves follows this idea of varying lexicons between tribes.

I think your idea of the "primal" language is interesting and probably accurate (as all further language by all elves, trolls and preservers was based off of this). But yes, function is important for names, regardless of species. For example, FRAK (defined as a fracture, crack, break, etc.) is perfect for a troll but not perfect (probably) for an elf. However, during the Rebel series we hear one of the soldiers say something along the lines of "this computer is all frakked up." So, it seems that this word shifted to human speech though its roots seem to have been lost with the original elf language. I say this because Jink, when holding the small palace, exclaims "High Ones" in a language that is familiar to her but she doesn't know what it means (I'm probably not explaining the scene accurately, but its the basic idea). So, Jink seems to speak only human at that point in time.

I would agree with you about accents. Thought I have studied linguistics quite a bit I have not studied much on how accents develop (or how "pigeon" or argotic languages are developed). Fascinating stuff. An interesting study was done on Gulla Gulla Island but I can't find the specific one I am thinking of. I read it back as an undergrad (which seems like a lifetime ago). You make a very valid point with the idea that those elf tribes with older members (such as Savah) would more likely have a more "original" dialect than those elf tribes whose members have much shorter life spans for various reasons (Wolfriders and Go-Backs). I'll have to add this to my notes. While focusing so much on language mechanics I have given little thought to dialects. We'll call what I am developing "Standard Elvish" or something similar. Perhaps later there will be different dialects. I had problems with this type of thing with Arabic. I learned "Standard Arabic" which everyone could understand. The people I communicated with did not speak in "Standard Arabic" however so I had a hard time understanding them. Frequently this made for very one-way communication. Elves can always "send" and I'm assuming this is not done through..."verbal" messages. What I mean by this is that they didn't send thoughts with language, but with images and emotions. I can find quotes about what I mean if this is unclear.

As for your statement about the elven language being nearly impossible for humans to pick up, I'd have to respectfully disagree. In my experience, language is language. The reason I believe elves speak "human" so much better is that they frequently observe humans while remaining undetected. Almost never do the humans observe elves...either detected or not. So, there is little chance for humans to learn the elven language. Also, humans have a more reduced lifetime so a more narrow window to learn the language. If an elf learned even one human word a year they would amass a considerable vocabulary by the end of their life (information which could then, potentially, be passed on to other elves). Tyleet's adopted son, Patch, spoke elvish fluently (makes me wonder if he had an accent while speaking "human"). Another interesting thing is that Cutter seems fluent in "human" during the era of the first holt and then his understanding and ability to speak the language is significantly reduced during Shuna's era. It seems the human language developed and shifted and Cutter wasn't able to keep up (possibly because he was sleeping in "wrap-stuff").

It's a fine point to argue either way and I think some explanation of this will have to be prepared for the final manual. It even has me scratching my head (probably why I am going bald).

Great questions and points, Trollhammer. Discussing this has been very enjoyable. I look forward to more discussions with you in the near future. All the best.

THERE IS NO CHANCE that the elf-language you made is anywhere near as articulate, plausible, or developed (in the imagination of its fandom's fans) as
1) the made-up ferengy, klingon, or vulcan languages of Trekerrs
2) the ACTUAL language spoken by the elves of mordor


It is one thing to be surmising that the wonderful clan who lives in your imagination HAS a distinct language; it is another thing to discover an elvish lexicon (that isn't some CODE-key derivative of the Romance Languages). I believe that you are wasting your efforts. Please consider that J.R.R. Tolkien had heard, through telepathy, proper chatter and began to decipher an authentic language, unlike STAR WARS and elfQuest races, whose languages are superimpositions of human-like dialects.

Wow...I could say so much about this. But I won't.

Yanclae, thanks for the encouragement. It reminds me only that those afraid of failure do absolutely nothing. I choose to take the path less traveled by...and I'm sure that will make all the difference. It has so far. But to respond to your statements:

Firstly, discussing "plausibility" is really irrelevant considering we are discussing science fiction. Anything is possible in science fiction, probably why we like it so much.

To address how articulate this language is or might be I don't think anyone can judge a thing like that at this point. I'm still writing the manual which I am sure will go through countless revisions. Even the Oxford dictionary does this. Constructing this thing is not an easy process. If it were as easy as saying, "Oh, this word means X" then I would be done by now.

As for this language being as developed as the language created by Tolkien I would have to agree with you at the current time. Tolkien spent years developing his languages and was a professor of linguistics. I have spent less than a month on this currently and I have no degree in linguistics. That doesn't mean this language CANNOT be developed, however. And because I find this work interesting and enjoyable I will continue to develop it. If you consider it a waste of time then I suppose that is entirely your problem, not mine.

In regard to "discovering" an elven language...I'm not sure I totally understand your meaning. Tolkien’s language was entirely fabricated with elements taken from Latin (the root of all romance languages) and other languages. So, his language wasn't "discovered" either. It was entirely fabricated. For this language I am working on I have taken elements from Latin, Russian, Romanian (yet another romance language) and, of course, English. I have also been looking toward Arabic to solve a few structural problems but it hasn't been very helpful yet.

And if Tolkien heard his languages "through telepathy" then I am certainly operating at a great disadvantage because I possess no such wonderful gift. I have to do everything the good, ol' fashion way which is through hard work.

So, thanks for your interest, comments and support. I wish you all the best.

Wow. That has to be one of the two rudest comments I've seen on this site.

When and where was it ever said or written that Tolkien was a telepath? And if so, who whispered elvish into his ears I wonder? Angels? Or water spirits?

Jeremy, I really like the additions you've made. Rock High Skill. That is a very cool name. And high skill being close to what we would call master. Uar. Ireally like the sound of that.

In your list do you have a word for sun? Not important at all, but when I've been playing with the few words I knew, the idea of calling sun for Shenah, which I think translated into Shiny light apealed to me, and that has been what I've used. Likewise I made gold be shenek (shiny rocks.)

Isn't there a story about the wolfriders coming upon a communication device sent out by the High One's ship, where Skywise was the only one who could receive the messages? Didn't Timmain speak an entirely different language?

If that's the case, it would kind of make you wonder how all these tribes (and preservers...and trolls) would speak the same language after all those years.

(Babel fish, of course!)

Good thing there's no discrepancies in Elfquest.

Hello, DJ Immortal Hands. In my list I have Sun listed as "ana" which is close to "ah" (which I was using to express "light"). "Shen" I have marked down as "Lucky". "Ahn" is the word used to express "partially" or "a piece of the whole". In this way Ahnshen is named "Partially Lucky" or "Half Lucky" which I think leads one to wonder about an interesting back story. I didn't select the meaning for "ahn" as it was contributed by another EQ fan in a list I received. I think it works well. I have not yet selected a word for "shine" or any derivative of it yet. "Ann" is close in meaning, meaning "very bright" or "blinding". (ANA [IS] ANN = The Sun is Bright/Blinding). Note here too that there is no definite article (THE). Again, these are just my words and selections. Your meaning for SHEN could work too, so Ahnshen would mean "half shine" or "partial shine" (I think a name meaning "Half Lucky" is slightly more interesting personally, but that's just me). SHENSHEN would then mean, according to you, SHINY SHINY which would be a good description of her personality and there is no reason that it couldn't work. You may be completely right. Let's look for a few more examples and see if we can decide on a meaning. If you like a different word or meaning please feel free to adjust them and explain why (I don't care about personally being right, I only care that the final word list is viewed as accurate). Many of the EQ words I have listed came from other people. I do like the way you are using the words to come up with words for "gold" and "sun". It seems the elves have (and would naturally have) different names for the same thing. The Sun Toucher also calls the sun "the day star" (a meaning which we completely understand). Skywise, in book 1, had never heard this name and so he says (paraphrasing), "Wouldn't it be amazing if all stars were suns?" We are certainly thinking along the same lines. Send me an email at jerms15@hotmail.com and I'll be sure to get you a full name translation list and word list (as complete as it is). You can go from there. Again, please feel free to tell me I'm wrong if you think I am. My feelings don't get hurt. Just please be prepared to defend the answer with examples from the text (if there are any examples). Accuracy is the only consideration here. Things will naturally progress as things develop. For example, your meaning of "shenek" is great except that I don't think it can be used for a proper name because you'd frequently confuse it with "silver" (which is also a shiny rock). So, you could say "[Gold is] shen ek" (we'll get into adjective and noun placement and language structure later) and that would work perfectly (in my opinion). I certainly appreciate the note and I'll be looking into SHEN as well when I have time. So, email me and I'll get you the lists. From there you can pick words and names and try to hunt down the meaning. One of my biggest challenges right now is the word VOL. Based on language mechanics, "L" at the end of the word signifies the progressive tense/gerund (so, adding "ING" at the end of a word). So, Lord VOLL is LORD VOLing. REEVOL is FLY-VOL and VOL is just VOL. (Also note that ING can also signify ER, the specific rules I have started mapping out but are still rather loose). So, LEETL means "healing" but can also mean "healer". Yeah, I cringe when I think about how imprecise this is (then again, I can't "send" to convey meaning). I was thinking VOL might signify DREAM so LORD VOLL is LORD DREAMING/DREAMER, REEVOL is "FLY-DREAM" or, perhaps more accurately, "DREAM FLIGHT". And VOL is just DREAM. As you see, I don't believe this is right. Just the best I've gotten to so far. I thought it also might mean LEAD so REEVOL means "FLY-LEAD" or "FLIGHT LEADER" so to speak. Still pretty rough and it doesn't seem to be working. Anyway, I look forward to hearing more about your ideas. Gotta go for now. Talk to you soon.

(Please forgive any errors in spelling, no time for spell-check)