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General Troll Quest plan

TrollHammer

Well, was going to write more, but I'm getting booted off the computer. Be back later.



Here's a link for previous but pertinate info:



http://www.elfquest.com/social/index.php?do=/forum/-1/elfquest-as-a-console-game-/page_8/



Anyway, in short, building a game, Elfquest related.



Going to call it Troll Quest.



Some story points will be changed unless we get approval for using origional content (IE: Preservers will be known as Protectors)



Will be developed in planned levels: starting with the origional Father Tree Holt, Gotara Tribe camp, and Forest Troll Kingdom.



Next expansion would be the Burning Wastes and Sun Village and a Desert Troll kingdom (non-canon)



Followed by Blue Mountain and Two-Edge's Blue Mountain Resort (not that name, just goofing for names, we need to keep all race zones equal) and the Hoan tribe



Followed by the Frozen Mountains, Go-Backs, and Frozen Trolls.



Followed (perhaps) by the Palace and various updates



Followed by added content for Blue Mountain events (if not coded earlier)



And so on.... (basically, the content will follow the story line in progression, however, there will be a non-linear play feel and possible events will be based on game play rather than linear or chronological theme. Also, as an expansion is added, most race/tribe combos will be able to start or bind with any race/tribe.)



Intent for inter race dynamics:



There is no specific rule that people can't get along. There will be racial or tribal incentives for players to fight other races or tribes (or specific characters), but nothing requiring you to not get along. There will also be incentives to get along, but they wont be immediate. Not sure if NPCs are going to auto fight based on these incentives.



One example, since I have time at the moment: A player might have something equating to 'renoun' like in Fable (not at all like it, but sort of). This influences how liked you are to NPCs, how your group (tribe, race, party) is liked or disliked in the world, etc. It might look something like this:



Character race: Human

Elf-friend: (+- 0 to 100) +2

Human-friend: (+- 0 to 100) +25

Troll-friend: (+- 0 to 100) -5

Protector-friend: (+- 0 to 100) 0



(discribes a Human that has met an elf or two with null or positive results, been ripped off by a Troll, and has not met a Protector)



A character will, by default, be like +5 to +10 to own race, and +5 to +10 to the race that raised it. In this way, one can hate their own race over time, or the race that raised them.



This is a straight and pure like/hate when one player interacts with an NPC or another player (shows as a stat that can be read by another player)



Additionally, if a character or NPC kills another character or NPC, it affects both their own stats and the stats of the race or tribe or party that the victim belonged to as well as their race. The killer will be branded with "(race) killer" and the circumstances under which the killing took place. (as well as how many).



There will also be affiliation stats to race, tribe, and party. These might be generated on contact and updated at the end of an incounter (along with all other stats).



Here's the catch: If, say you are a wolfrider and you kill a Gotara human, it would look something like this:



Your character will get -20 like to all humans present, and -10 like to all humans in that tribe, and -5 to humans everywhere.



All humans present will be -20 to all Wolfriders, -15 to all Elves everywhere



The Gotara Tribe will be -5 to -10 to all Wolfriders.



You can see how a battle between tribes can get messy!



However, some Hate can be evaporiated away over time. Say, the more hated or the more you hate (or an NPC), the faster it evaporiates (exponential). Meaning, in this case, that if your character is hated by humans at -90, you lose hate at like 1 an hour, but at -50, it takes like a day, and at -25 it takes a week and so on. (lieing low) In theory, you shouldn't completely lose hate without doing something to gaing like (trust).



Like or trust, can also evaporate as well, but at a lesser rate. Even say at 90% like, it might take a week or two to lose 1 like.



Under special circumstances, a branding (traitor, killer, etc) can be removed through the aid of a healer and greater than half of the tribe who's tribesmate you killed. (forgiveness, vote system).



However, there is also another mechanic at play: Prestige (or whatever it'll be called): If a tribe hates another tribe or race (or party, or whatever), you get points for fighting with that tribe. A lot of points if you kill one. So it becomes a personal choice if you want to become a Shaman, a hunter, or reject your tribe or try to make amends.



Well, gotta go.



Here's another group that info will be used from:



http://www.elfquest.com/social/index.php?do=/group/elf-quest-customizable-card-game-project/forum/

TrollHammer

Not that I want to fixate on bad things or spoil possible dynamics, but as Id like every option that was in the story, but i wanted to get something jotted down before i forget it. Kidnapping. There might have to be a whole sub ability for programmed NPCs or players to be able to kidnap NPCs or other players.

Non deadly fighting should not just be allowed but encouraged. This includes feuds, duels, captures, and even in battle.

Remember, if at all possible, Id prefer to havedead be possible but extremely difficult, and death be final except in rare instances.

Some character, like leaders, should be reserved for GMs and special game play. This will also cut down on fighting, and limit the chance of having key characters being left oit. Sad to say, this means that there will be A Skywise, A Cutter, A Winnowil, A Two-Edge, A Greymung, A Guttlekraw, A Djun... Etc, that will be NPCs and reserved. However, there is no reason that someone could not make a name LIKE these characters.

For instance:

King Greymung
Cutter-Kinseeker
Skywise, Keeper of the Lodestone
Chief Cutter

does not exclude:
Cutter
cutter
Cutter-Chief
Cutter, Keeper of the Way
Skywise
Greymung
Greymung the Great
Greymung the King

for most characters this wont matter, like Moonshade. She does not play a large enough roll to warrent being needed as a key figure, but players will want to play as her.

Players should also be able to reserve their Elfquest moniker and their other fan site names. This will have to be handled at those sites prior to the launch of the game.

It will have to be discussed whether certain combinations of key names and races are possible, such as Cutter and Protector, or Two Edge and Human. Though it would seem nice to be able to roll play any character under any circumstance, some options might not be allowed. Especially since it is concievable that a player could make it clear to whatever end there might be alive.

Here is another aspect: allow a player name to be reused once the character dies. Im also thinking of a way to make the reservation of characters possible: a player starts an acfount with the name of their choosing. They can start up to four characters on that account, and their exact member name is reserved for their use only. The NPCs would have their own acounts (locked out from being accessible except manually from the server), set to automatic, with a script defining their behavior.

A user account can also be set to auto by its user, and later on scripts might be available for users to use or generate. Otherwise setting a character to auto just runs a default script.

Automated default characters would generally be pretty docile, sticking with the last tribe or party they were working with. Part of their actions (or rather, interactions) would be driven by ther like/dislike thing above, but uless there is a battle going on they wont seek out a fight (except if their hate meter is too high, such as if something or someone comes in and starts killing tribesmates, an automated character woild quickly reach say -75 for the invader, and cause it to attack if the offender is close enough.

This brings up another couple thoughts: pack behavior, what to do with the characters the palyer isnt playing, what to do with players characters if something drastic happens, such as a holt burning down while "asleep".

TrollHammer

Well, not that anyone actually reads this stuff according to the View counts, but it at least works as a scratch pad for me.



Here's the current update for what's going on in the game...



Embala has been tasked with compiling information about the characters of EQ, to be implemented into the game.



Jeedi has been tasked with compiling information about Items that might be in the game, such as knives, trinkets, rocks, clothing, etc.



No scale has been set yet for what is considered "strong" or "weak" or "powerful" or "normal" for any stats yet.



As I have focus today I'll be working on general stat mechanics, as it seems to be the next part I need to work on.



I have contacted several other people about what they want to see in the game and have got some very useful, if rudimetry, information. It seems that the best course of action at this point is to try and think up everything that might be used in the game, but only build the Troll Quest portion for now and see what people think, This has been the plan from the beginning, but instead of trying to make a hundred or a thousand characters, items, quests, and whatnot I'm just going to try and prod myself into making generic templates for the Trolls for now. Since I don't want to redo work over again, though, I want to be sure there's as much future use foundation available as possible. As such, you might see Trolls with magical ability for the inital run (less graphics than trying to add elves in a troll based game)



These foundations include:



Basic and additional stats:

Will

Physical Strength

Agility





Skills and ability:

Mining

Prospecting

Smelting

Crude forging





Magical abilities:

Magical abilities, like skills, are going to have to be reanylized for layout. They are easier than skills, so I'll work on them a little here. Basically, magic will boil down to basic Elements and Ability Level:



Elements (for now):

Flesh

Plant

Stone (earth)

Water

Air

Fire

Mind

Spirit (Will magic)



Ability levels:

Basic attunment (no apparent skill, but might allow a character to be resistant or suseptible to an Element)

Sensing (still not able to manipulate anything, but can sense when there are attuned magics around)

Basic manipulation (varys according to element, Flesh=able to heal self faster, Plant=able to make small plants grow slightly faster or stronger, Stone=able to locate and classify nearby types of rock, Fire= able to build fires more easily, or perhaps make images ficker in the flames, etc.)

Student (able to start shaping the basic sense of the element. This can be the largest step for observed shapers)

Advanced Student (able to comfortably manipulate the occasional proper instance of an element. For example, an advanced student flesh shaper would be able to begin reliably healing serious but non-fatal injuries fairly rapidly)

Master (A master is not necessarily one who has mastered every aspect of an element, but one who's talent has matured to the point they can be relied on by the tribe. Leetah, as she was at the time Cutter recogized her, wuuld be a master.)

Adept (Elementalist that has begun to specialize. Leetah began to specialize in mortal injury. Winnowil specialized in the manipulation of pain and flesh shaping)

Advanced adept (Elementalist that has specialized in a particular branch and can start delving into what this means. Ahdri, a rock shaper, could later shape metal, which is a specialized form of rock.)

Master adept (can perform all tasks at an advanced level based on their focal specialization. Sunstream, when (if) he goes "online" will be an example of this.)



As can be seen, this will make things very time consuming to put together...



and then there's items that use simliar stuff....



and then all the graphical information for all this stuff so players can actually see somethign....



Yeah....

TrollHammer

Yep, this project is still alive, just going slow while I pound out another computer project for.work.

I have a question, though, after reading some comments in a RP discussion...

Would players like a cyclic system, where player's characters and the "world" essentially reset every few months, or have a continuously building account?

Elfquest is a unique environment in that it already has a cycle mechanic built in: the time traveling palace. A world event every few months could volumtarily or.involumtarily move all players.to a fresh playing field that they would have new and old challenges, or have a fair chance to begin a new character or play an old one differently.

The alternative is a steadily building, power creeping feel that new players would have a hard time interacting with old players on an even playing field.

Embala


Yep, this project is still alive, just going slow while I pound out another computer project for.work.
Very happy to hear so! Smile


I have a question, though, after reading some comments in a RP discussion...

Would players like a cyclic system, where player's characters and the "world" essentially reset every few months, or have a continuously building account?
Again - I'm not a player (never was!) and lack both experiance and comparism ...

My first reaction was - Oh NO, no reset!
... at least not as a regular principle. Not again and a again a similar cycle.
Buuuut ... wouldn't a "neverending" game afford an awful lot of ideas with incredibly creative players and gamemaster?

So far about my first thoughts ... judging from my own abilities of plot making the game would go in circles anyway after several months.

Elfquest is a unique environment in that it already has a cycle mechanic built in: the time traveling palace. A world event every few months could volumtarily or.involumtarily move all players.to a fresh playing field that they would have new and old challenges, or have a fair chance to begin a new character or play an old one differently.
Reading on the idea of a controlled reset became more appealing - especially when this doesn't mean that the game starts at the same point but within a new environment and under new circumstances. The Palace would be a good instrument for this.
Charactes CAN keep (part of) their experiance and attitude ... or forget or change for reasonable reason.

The alternative is a steadily building, power creeping feel that new players would have a hard time interacting with old players on an even playing field.
I can understand that new players can be intimitated to join an ongoing game without knowing what's it about and how things are handled.

And - it is about "points" and powers and experiances the characters gained up to a certain point? That newbies can hardly hold their stand against oldtimers? And in a reset things would be more or less equalized again to give everyone similar chances based on the chosen characters? Sounds like a good idea when I look at it this way.

TrollHammer

Embala said


Very happy to hear so! Smile





Again - I'm not a player (never was!) and lack both experiance and comparism ...



My first reaction was - Oh NO, no reset!

... at least not as a regular principle. Not again and a again a similar cycle.

Buuuut ... wouldn't a "neverending" game afford an awful lot of ideas with incredibly creative players and gamemaster.



So far about my first thoughts ... judging from my own abilities of plot making the game would go in circles anyway after several months.



Readingn thedea of a controlled reset became more appealing - especially when this doesn't mean that the game starts at the same point but within a new environment and under new circumstances. The Palace would be a good instrument for this.

Charactes CAN keep (part of) their experiance and attitude ... or forget or change for reasonable reason.




I can understand that new players can be intimitated to join an ongoigame witut knowing what's it about and how things are handled.



And - it is about "points" and powers and experiances the characters gained up to a certain point? That newbies can hardly hold their stand against oldtimers? And in a reset things would be more or less equalized again to give everyone similar chances based on the chosen characters? Sounds like a good idea when I look at it this way.

[/quote]





I am glad you were so detailed about your thought process on this, it helps me gain some insight.



Do you have any more thoughts about how a story dynamic might play out? Please feel free to say what you feel!



I would like the game to have a storybook feel to it, so it is more like an interactive story you "live" in, making choices, exporing, etc. In a sense, a player could be allowed to choose either path progressively (unending experience vs "cyclic") in the same way that the band of elves we follow in the EQ main storyline join other bands, choose other paths, hop to new beginnings and the like. If it could be figured out, this would be a very unique game.

Embala

I'll think about it.

Not quite sure what you mean, tho: Do you have any more thoughts about how a story dynamic might play out?

Can you explain a bit more? Or give an example from an existing game?

TrollHammer

Embala said


I'll think about it.



Not quite sure what you mean, tho: Do you have any more thoughts about how a story dynamic might play out?



Can you explain a bit more? Or give an example from an existing game?







Hmm... In a way I was hoping to see where you went with it. Having not played many games, you would have a unique perspecive in that you might think of something new. Many conversations I've overheard sound a bit like:



'...like to make my own game, that would be like blahblah but without having to blahblah...'



'Oh, you mean like suchandsuch but with somethingelse mixed in?'



'Sort of, but with less 'somekindofgamerterm'. (the game they were origionally talking about) would be perfect if they didn't have so much of that....'



and so on.



I used to play a lot of video games, and enjoy it even though I'm never all that good, but I don't know current game trends, and frankly, I'm not really interested in them. An Elf Quest based game should be allowed "to be whatever it will be", as a certain cloud head would say.





Anyway, it seems that a player could be a part of the Sun Villagers, Plains Elves, some Trolls, or even a variant of Blue Mountain and keep on going about their business in that location with whoever wishes to be there, steadily building toward something, or just blissfully living "in the now" in the forest, hunting, protecting, surviving.



If the tribe splits, or a stranger(s) wanders through, they could keep on doing what they were doing, or follow the stranger, or even react to the new events. For example:



When the wolfriders met the Gliders the following COULD have happened:



-Strongbow listened to the warning and not shot the bird, and...

-Never met the gliders

-met them on a more friendly basis

-ran into the tribe of humans and had any number of outcomes



or

-gliders ignore the loss of the bird and hide themselves from the wolfriders

-Winnie just keeps on doing her thing for millinia to come (no egg)

-Winnie goes ahead with the egg, but the Wolfriders know nothing about it and she goes on with world domination.

-Lord Vol wakes up and knocks some sense into Winnie, and a new chain of events occurs...



Some of these things result in unending, unchanging, steadily building gameplay



Some are risky, and may result in a player stumbling (winnie lost power when she fell at the hands of the wolfriders, Vol gained his senses when the wolfriders awoke him, but ended up losing his life later on that he would not have if he had stayed put)



Some could result in a new cycle and new playing field, such as if Winnie succeeded in joining the Egg with the Palace and moved on, those with her or starting new with her group would be starting equal, but not starting over. Or, she could screw up (she does that a lot) and throw the palace back in time again, and those aboard would have to work together to survive.



This is just one piece of EQ, and potential outcomes, all based on player input. Actual events could be as diverse as the origional story!



Time travel would be simulated of course, but what I'm thinking of trying to work out is record what players do in a way that it can be read back as a story if one wishes, (or a storyteller could recall), but also generate NPCs of the players that replay the player's past actions while the "time traveled" players interact and mess with them.



I'd prefer more input from others, though.

TrollHammer

Well, this is an attept at using photobucket, so we will se how it goes.

If the load right, here are some sample renderings I got done in the last few days.

A brief explaination: I am using a 3d modling program to generate objects, then use the program's renderer at different angles and zooms and lights to generate the images. I still dont know how to specify scale properly, and these are just examoles. Feel free to make whatever comments, complaints, suggestions, etc.

I am only able to draft "made" objects, such as machines, weapons, furnature, carts, and the like. Organic shapes will have to be hand drawn or pixel draw. If this inspires anyone to start drawing characters, feel free to post examples. Ill post up a better set of necessary views and scale later.

Netgore is getting a revamp that is supposed to make it easier to complete a game, which is great news. Ill keep everyone posted.

Heres some sample sprites, if they work:

Well, I guess it wont work from here, on my phone, so Ill just have to upload them to the group photo folder.

The spear will be about to the proper scale for an elf in the game, but Ill need to make it a bit thicker to make it look better.

Embala

There's not even a code hidden between the lines I'd can try to fiddle with ... Unhappy

TrollHammer

Embala said

There's not even a code hidden between the lines I'd can try to fiddle with ... Unhappy



Sorry, didnt get them uploaded to the group album. I cant get any links to photobucket. Im thinking of closing the account as its about useless.

Ill try uploading them presently...

TrollHammer

Ok... basic, basic, basic...



So just to get a simple, basic, "get a feel of it" version together, I'm going to work with the barest basics.



Potatoe has graciously lended some character graphics to help get the ball rolling. Combining that with some of the graphics I've collected I'll make a simple, one map "pre version" that will let us play with images to see what feel we want. I'll probably only have one tree type, stamped all over the place at random, a few NPCs and figure out how to let someone log in.



There will be no fighting, quests, music, chat, or anything that isn't set up by default in the game engine. The goal is just to get something to look at to help organize everyone and help us see what we have so far.



Even with that, it's going be be dodgy to just getting that together in a timely fashion.



At least with that, it will be "cheap" to upload/download for others to check it out. Initially, I'll host it from home (which means I'll have to set up a computer) so I can make changes rapidy. If you want to be notified of alpha testing beyond what I post here, please let me know (PM, Email, or post to this group).



I'll set up an alpha test thread where people can "sign up" (anyone is allowed, it just helps me contact you direct with dates and times of updates, tests, etc), as well as what it will look like. Specific ideas and whatnot will go into catagories already listed (or generate a new one if you see it, just as music), but general alpha testing discussion, likes, dislikes, etc will go into the alpha thread.

TrollHammer

(bu)