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GRAPHIC RECONSTITUTION / STUDY

PCoquelin

I've had this idea of a game/challenge for graphists for a looooong time, and I finally decided to try it.



The principle is this:

with the existing (but incomplete) graphic references for some wonderful item from the series..

..TRY and reconstitute the COMPLETE item.

At least ANALYSE them, sharing your analysis and the results of your study here.



First proposal: the huge, muti-coloured 'Great Sun' suspension of tinted glass behind Savah's throne, in Sorrow's End.



Here are the references I gathered :

















































Unfortunately, I cannot participate anymore to this kind of graphic challenge,

because I don't have the required graphic tools, for now.



At least consider this exercise as a COLLECTIVE effort.





I just hope some elf-friends, here, will try their hands at it..

..and that it will give other ideas to other fans!

Embala

You mean to recreate the complete circle, PC? One of them ...

Each of the reference pics shows a different pattern in form and colors, so there would be not a single "right" one, but many possibilities. Not to mention the differrent coloring styles.

PCoquelin

Good remarks! You're attentive, Embala!

Now, you see why I'd rather call this a challenge..
..and such objections should NOT be a REAL obstacle for IMAGINATIVE graphists..
..because they offer more LATITUDE, for the reconstitution of this item we all 'know'.


Now, all.. just think about this hypothesis:
What if that splendid 'suspension'..
..was in fact a TURNING wheel?

Embala

Wink Looking whether it could fit when it is turned around was the second thing I did. It's left to imagination.

In fact the lines on the "teeth" would hint a movement.

PCoquelin

What if it also served as some sort of clock..?

Would make much sense..

PCoquelin

But no.. the patterns are indeed CHANGING, from one scene to the other, as well as the colors..
  ..and not the way a turning wheel would.



Oh, well.. I guess it must be some shape-changing magic at work.

PCoquelin

Or.. it might be some sort of mind-manipulating magic, based on light control
  and the detection of emotions, this wonderful item facilitating it, for Savah.

For instance, I noticed she never faces it..

And maybe Sun-Toucher deserves his name in more ways than expected and participates in this,
  unaffected by the visual effects, blind as he is..



Strangely enough..
..this far-fetched hypothesis may make MUCH sense, considering..

Jeedai

Oh, intriguing idea. And I do have the graphic tools to give it a try.

But...

There's no indication in-story (which I'm aware of) that the design slowly changes in the way that the Great Egg does. And how could it? There's no rock shaper in the village until Ekuar visits and Ahdri comes in to her magical powers. Or metal shaper, if that's a think in canon, to manipulate the 'veins' separating the glass (EDIT: if that's metal). And how else would it rotate? The Sun Villagers dont have gear technology.

And if that's glass instead of crystal, which I suspect it is... is glassshaping a thing?

I think this is just a case where the continuity of the shape is not maintained from one image to the next. I could put together a similar montage of Petalwing's wings changing wildly from story to story or page to page. Doesn't mean it is a shapeshifter altering its wings at will. Just means that the image of the wings is a minor detail not worth extreme nitpicking relative to the whole image.

So maybe the final reconstruction would me more of a composite. We could pick out aspects of the different image and choose what to put in the final image. For example, I prefer the softer glass colors in the image with Savah's name in the ribbon, over the deeper colors in the other images. It brings to my mind the image that the sun symbol was designed to recall and preserve the image of the crystalline nature of the long-lost Palace, while the elves of Blue Mountain devoted themselves to replicating the *architecture.*

I have seen part of an old thread debating whether or not Savah is a light or fire shaper who makes her chair and the background circle glow when she sits down. Dont recall a conclusion ever being reached... But the way the panes are colored in the image I refered to seems to imply there is a glow of some sort, to me.

Jeedai

Glass breaks....

Good point.

Another (later-era) image.



wanted to see the throne in context with the dias.

PCoquelin

Jeedai said
I think this is just a case where the continuity of the shape is not maintained from one image to the next.
..
minor detail not worth extreme nitpicking relative to the whole image.


I doubt it more and more..

After all, Wendy went to great lengths to show us this item in varying angles,
  and it's FAR easier for an artist to set such a complex item ONCE..
  ..rather than having to re-create it each and every time.

Jeedai said
So maybe the final reconstruction would me more of a composite. We could pick out aspects of the different image and choose what to put in the final image.


Indeed. Let your imagination work!

PCoquelin


Glass breaks.... and they have those cat critters running around a whole lot ((Leetah's pet)), so I wager, a pane of glass gets broke here and there by rambunctious critters... or zwoot stampedes.... and the different panes are the repaired/replaced ones

I like simplicity....


So do I.

Even simpler hypothesis:
What if there were MANY different such 'Great Sun' items stored under Savah's hut?

After all, the Sun-Folk probably had the time to craft such a collection,
in homage to their Mother of Memory..



By the way.. Did anyone notice that the backcover of #6 is the only panel..
..presenting this item INVERTED?

PCoquelin

Jeedai said
Another (later-era) image.


The WHOLE decorum has changed..

Embala

Inverted? ... Either I'm not attentive enough - or my vocabulary fails.


Jeedai said

And if that's glass instead of crystal, which I suspect it is... is glassshaping a thing?

There's a wonderful calendar pic by Foxeye about the creation of this wheel of light. It illustrated how rockshaper magic and lightshaper magic flow together in this artefact. Not quite canon ... but it's in the official calendar, isn't it? It would be a nice addition to this discussion ...

PCoquelin



Have a look at the (totally wonderful) backcover of #6 issue of the original quest.



Then watch the BORDER of the Great Sun item..
..and compare with other panels.

jeb

Jeedai said


I have seen part of an old thread debating whether or not Savah is a light or fire shaper who makes her chair and the background circle glow when she sits down. Dont recall a conclusion ever being reached... But the way the panes are colored in the image I refered to seems to imply there is a glow of some sort, to me.


Well, it does say in issue 8: "The circular room of audience is dark! The light born of Savah's energy no longer shines behind her throne!"

So it seems like she causes the glow, but never says how.

PCoquelin

jeb said
So it seems like she causes the glow, but never says how.


I guess her proximity to it and her emotions play a big role..



Just consider how luminous or not it is, all along the various scenes.

Jeedai

New question:

Should the 'blades' on the outer area be all the exact same size and shape (like a buzzsaw blades) or more uneven and natural (which they would more likely be if formed like in the image by Foxeye)?

And how many? Depending on which image I'm counting out half a circle from, it varies from 30 to 28 or 26.

PCoquelin

More like 'natural', like waves, mainly, but ALSO varying in size and shape (and maybe in amount too), if you look closely.

For loooooong, I thought it was only Wendy having trouble insuring graphic consistency for it..
  ..but the more I consider this item, and how many times she showed it, with varying angles,
  the more I think it's an object filled with shape-changing magic,
  probably made of several soft metals (copper, silver, etc.) and tinted glass or even gems!

Making it rather difficult to reconstitute, for a graphist..
  ..unless they ANIMATE it, slowly and subtly changing the patterns and hues.


Maybe too hard a challenge, this..

Jeedai

Looking at the series of images PC posted, particularly the last sevral where the circle is dark while Savah is catatonic...



I'm do like the idea that Savah's a lightshaper or whatever, and that the lights in the gems/glass/crystals are off because her magic and or spirit is no longer 'present' to manipulate or empower the sculpute. Whatever's going on with that thing, she's connected to it somehow. When Winnowill messed with her, she got unplugged from the wall.



But the veins in the circle are still erratic from panel to panel. Why would the stone form be active and not the lights?



If Savah's (dead) lover was stashed behind the wall in a sack of wrapstuff editing things unconciously (the way Ahdri later will, making Sorrow's End a rough place for the Rebels to navigate), fine. But he's not. And outside of Bad Magic pools, like the one that created Madcoil, we dont see any instances of 'magical batteries' that keep chugging along doing their thing without assistance from an elf. Someone has to be purposefully acting on the sculputure to make anything happen to it, and in that scene no one is. So I still say the changes in the lines are on WP's end, not an in-universe change.

PCoquelin

Jeedai said
But the veins in the circle are still erratic from panel to panel. Why would the stone form be active and not the lights?
...
.. outside of Bad Magic pools, like the one that created Madcoil, we dont see any instances of 'magical batteries' that keep chugging along doing their thing without assistance from an elf.
..


Why only bad magic..?



Wendy simply didn't explicitly point or explain how this item works..
..and I have less and less and even less the feeling these visual variations might be graphic inconsistency.

"The very best way to hide a secret..
..is presenting it in plain sight."




More: pay attention to the process that created Madcoil :
. The presence of a dormant pool of shapechanging and mind magic
. Two wild beasts entangled in mortal combat
. Lightning in the area
. Capture of the intense emotions on that spot (hatred, madness and blood-thirst)
. Shapechanging magic triggered into that fighting couple
. Magic, living monstrosity, with a name: Madcoil, with sending ability, hating and mad

Embala

Now THIS would be a surprise ... a pool of good magic (or an elfin entity) existing in SE, shown from the very beginning in the change of the wheel of light ...

Personally I think Wendy just had too much fun recreating this artefact again and again ... changing to HER mood and how it's showing best in each panel.

PCoquelin

Embala said
Personally I think Wendy just had too much fun recreating this artefact again and again ...


Personally, I think she did just that..



..AND she is fond of such BIG surprises!

Jeedai

Initial reconstruction:



Using back cover of OQ#6 as the primary reference (it's effectively that version that I'm rebuilding here) with Foxeye's drawing as a reference to fill in the gap in the lower third.

The outline needs touching up and the 'joints' need to be edited into curves, among other things, but it's a start.

Embala

WOW ... that's pretty awesome for a "start", Jeedai! *bows*

The one from the backcover I prefer, too Smile

PCoquelin

Great start, indeed, Jeedai!

You may notice it's the ONLY 'Great Sun' ( #6 issue backcover ) that is INVERTED!



Just compare with the direction followed by the outer waves, in other references..